Laminated Longbow Build-a-long
Moderator: Moderators
- Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
Laminated Longbow Build-a-long
I am presently making myself a new laminated longbow and I thought the processes I use might be of interest to some folks on here. Please remember though that this is just how I do it and others may do it differently.
I will give an explanation on what I do and why and add photos. If you have any questions or don't understand anything please ask - I will try and give you a satisfactory answer.
I want to make the bow 66#long and around 70# at my 26.5" draw length. It will be of a reflexed, narrow limbed and deep cored design. I will be using laminations made from bamboo flooring (often called actionboo) and a riser made from Bubinga. I will be using clear glass.
I have already had one attempt at this bow and it went light at 65# so it has been put aside for now. Hopefully I have adjusted the core thickness sufficiently to get the weight right this time. I haven't used the bamboo flooring before trying it on these two bows so it was a trial (and so far error), in getting the core thickness correct.
The first photo simply shows the 4 parallel laminations I cut out of the flooring prior to being ground into tapered laminations. I will be tapering all 4 laminations which will suit my bow design.
The second photo is the lams being tapered on my linisher. I won't go into much detail here as most of you would most likely buy your lams pre tapered.
The following two photos show how I shape the riser blank and thin the ends down to ensure very thin fadeouts. It maybe a little hard to see but you might notice that I support the fadeouts during the thinning process with another piece of board. This allows me to make the fadeouts very thin. You should be able to see through the ends of your fadeouts.
The next post I will deal with preparation for the glue up.
I will give an explanation on what I do and why and add photos. If you have any questions or don't understand anything please ask - I will try and give you a satisfactory answer.
I want to make the bow 66#long and around 70# at my 26.5" draw length. It will be of a reflexed, narrow limbed and deep cored design. I will be using laminations made from bamboo flooring (often called actionboo) and a riser made from Bubinga. I will be using clear glass.
I have already had one attempt at this bow and it went light at 65# so it has been put aside for now. Hopefully I have adjusted the core thickness sufficiently to get the weight right this time. I haven't used the bamboo flooring before trying it on these two bows so it was a trial (and so far error), in getting the core thickness correct.
The first photo simply shows the 4 parallel laminations I cut out of the flooring prior to being ground into tapered laminations. I will be tapering all 4 laminations which will suit my bow design.
The second photo is the lams being tapered on my linisher. I won't go into much detail here as most of you would most likely buy your lams pre tapered.
The following two photos show how I shape the riser blank and thin the ends down to ensure very thin fadeouts. It maybe a little hard to see but you might notice that I support the fadeouts during the thinning process with another piece of board. This allows me to make the fadeouts very thin. You should be able to see through the ends of your fadeouts.
The next post I will deal with preparation for the glue up.
- Attachments
-
- Bow-Making-4.jpg (23.35 KiB) Viewed 15238 times
-
- Bow-Making-3.jpg (31.55 KiB) Viewed 15252 times
-
- Bow-Making-2.jpg (29.33 KiB) Viewed 15281 times
-
- Bow-Making-1.jpg (24.12 KiB) Viewed 15283 times
- Mick Smith
- Posts: 4957
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:09 pm
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
Jeff
Good to see you doing a build-a-long. You've only just started and already we're learning things. That's a very fine fade-out. It's going to be a nice contrast, the dark bubinga riser against the bamboo cores. I like clear glass over bamboo. I'm looking forward to further developments.
Mick
Good to see you doing a build-a-long. You've only just started and already we're learning things. That's a very fine fade-out. It's going to be a nice contrast, the dark bubinga riser against the bamboo cores. I like clear glass over bamboo. I'm looking forward to further developments.
Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.
- CameronPotter
- Posts: 598
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:01 pm
- Location: Seattle, USA
- Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
Matt,
The lighter bow may be for sale later - I will let you know.
Cam,
You are correct with regards how to taper a lam. I made a set of master tapers many years ago. I have just taken a set up photo for you but it is hard to see the taper. I use full length lams mostly but others use half length.
Mick S,
You caught me out straight away. I took photos of doing the fadeouts when I was doing the first bow. That riser is Burdekin Plum not Bubinga. The next lot of photos will have some of the Bubinga in them. It will give a good contrast as well.
Coach,
I believe that there are some videos around on making lam bows. I think Bingham Projects would be a good place to start. Try Google.
Jeff
The lighter bow may be for sale later - I will let you know.
Cam,
You are correct with regards how to taper a lam. I made a set of master tapers many years ago. I have just taken a set up photo for you but it is hard to see the taper. I use full length lams mostly but others use half length.
Mick S,
You caught me out straight away. I took photos of doing the fadeouts when I was doing the first bow. That riser is Burdekin Plum not Bubinga. The next lot of photos will have some of the Bubinga in them. It will give a good contrast as well.
Coach,
I believe that there are some videos around on making lam bows. I think Bingham Projects would be a good place to start. Try Google.
Jeff
- Attachments
-
- Bow-Making-A.jpg (16.34 KiB) Viewed 15201 times
- Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
These two photos show all the bits ready for glue up. Notice I have put masking tape over the outer surfaces of the glass. This serves two purposes. It stops glue getting on the glass and it allows you to be able to mark the bow out.
Note I have placed the centre line on the back glass. I do this before glue up as it is much harder to try and do once the bow is glued up because of the reflex.
Jeff
Note I have placed the centre line on the back glass. I do this before glue up as it is much harder to try and do once the bow is glued up because of the reflex.
Jeff
- Attachments
-
- Bow-Making-6.jpg (17.85 KiB) Viewed 15177 times
-
- Bow-Making-5.jpg (18.13 KiB) Viewed 15192 times
Cool
Is there a predetermined way of working out how big the riser should be? As I have some nice blackwood, American Oak, Jarrah and rose wood that I'd like to use for a handle. I think I have enough of the Blackwood (2.5"x 2.5" x 26") to make 2 risers.
Mick
Is there a predetermined way of working out how big the riser should be? As I have some nice blackwood, American Oak, Jarrah and rose wood that I'd like to use for a handle. I think I have enough of the Blackwood (2.5"x 2.5" x 26") to make 2 risers.
Mick
Bow Hunting is my Passion.
My wife says it's my Obsession.
Either way I'm happy.
My wife says it's my Obsession.
Either way I'm happy.
- Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
Mick,
Your riser length is governed by your bow design. Sixteen to eighteen inches is your average longbow riser length. Mine is sixteen in this bow. Your Blackwood could yield two risers if you are careful.
Gilnockie,
You probably have more experience with this bamboo flooring than me. Col Graham made the lam grinder for me many years ago now. It does a great job.
Jeff
Your riser length is governed by your bow design. Sixteen to eighteen inches is your average longbow riser length. Mine is sixteen in this bow. Your Blackwood could yield two risers if you are careful.
Gilnockie,
You probably have more experience with this bamboo flooring than me. Col Graham made the lam grinder for me many years ago now. It does a great job.
Jeff
So whats the formula for working out riser size to bow length?Stickbow Hunter wrote:Mick,
Your riser length is governed by your bow design. Sixteen to eighteen inches is your average longbow riser length. Mine is sixteen in this bow. Your Blackwood could yield two risers if you are careful.Jeff
Mick
Bow Hunting is my Passion.
My wife says it's my Obsession.
Either way I'm happy.
My wife says it's my Obsession.
Either way I'm happy.
- Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
Butcho,
Yeah mate she's been a good old shirt. I need a new one or two though. Hint! Hint!
Mick,
Working out your riser length isn't as easy as just having a simple formula. It all depends on your bow design as in straight layed, reflexed, deflex/reflex, reflex/deflex, bow length, draw length, longbow, recurve, etc and how much working limb is needed. As you can see there is much to consider.
Jeff
Yeah mate she's been a good old shirt. I need a new one or two though. Hint! Hint!
Mick,
Working out your riser length isn't as easy as just having a simple formula. It all depends on your bow design as in straight layed, reflexed, deflex/reflex, reflex/deflex, bow length, draw length, longbow, recurve, etc and how much working limb is needed. As you can see there is much to consider.
Jeff
build along
Lou,
Perfect timing!! I am right in the middle of building a small recurve hunting bow along the same lines as a Red Wing. I am also using bamboo flooring sandwiching a tapered core of American ash. The flooring was actually a facing strip that now comes in 3mm thickness and big enough to do 2 bows - it saves a lot of heartache trying to cut down a full board.
I also noted your photos showing your sander. I have pondered for months about how to make accurate tapering laminations. At the moment I have access to our school's complete furniture workshop and have used a full size belt sanding machine to taper the strips by eye. They have come out okay but not micron-perfect. Like Cam, I'm after any more hints and looking forward to the step by step photos.
I won't even try to compete with your fine thread ... I'd rather learn from your and will post some photos of my build along in a few weeks time.
David
Perfect timing!! I am right in the middle of building a small recurve hunting bow along the same lines as a Red Wing. I am also using bamboo flooring sandwiching a tapered core of American ash. The flooring was actually a facing strip that now comes in 3mm thickness and big enough to do 2 bows - it saves a lot of heartache trying to cut down a full board.
I also noted your photos showing your sander. I have pondered for months about how to make accurate tapering laminations. At the moment I have access to our school's complete furniture workshop and have used a full size belt sanding machine to taper the strips by eye. They have come out okay but not micron-perfect. Like Cam, I'm after any more hints and looking forward to the step by step photos.
I won't even try to compete with your fine thread ... I'd rather learn from your and will post some photos of my build along in a few weeks time.
David
Thanks, like I really needed any more confusion in my lifeStickbow Hunter wrote:Mick,
Working out your riser length isn't as easy as just having a simple formula. It all depends on your bow design as in straight layed, reflexed, deflex/reflex, reflex/deflex, bow length, draw length, longbow, recurve, etc and how much working limb is needed. As you can see there is much to consider.
Jeff
Mick
Bow Hunting is my Passion.
My wife says it's my Obsession.
Either way I'm happy.
My wife says it's my Obsession.
Either way I'm happy.
- Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
Fred, oops I mean David,
I am just showing how I go about doing a bow. It will be great to see your work in progress also as we can all learn something.
Jeff
I am just showing how I go about doing a bow. It will be great to see your work in progress also as we can all learn something.
Jeff
Last edited by Stickbow Hunter on Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
Now that all the bits and pieces are ready it is time to prepare for gluing.
The first thing I do is place all the components into my hot box (gluing oven) for approximately 10 minutes or so. This will dry any external moisture that may be on them and will aid in evaporating any moisture when I clean the lams just prior to glue up.
While the components are in the hot box I spread paper out over my work bench so I don’t get glue on it and prepare the other things I need.
In the first photo below you will see that I have my all important glue, which is an epoxy. I use Smooth-On EA 40 which is a two part mix similar to your common araldite. I have been using this epoxy for around 15 years and have found it to be exceptional.
The scales are for weighing the glue. It can be mixed 50 – 50 by volume but I prefer to mix by weight.
The butter container is to mix my glue in. When I’m finished it goes in the bin.
The black thing on the tins of glue is an old piece of bow glass that I use for a spreading the glue.
Lastly there is a piece of CLEAN rag which I wet with methylated spirits (forgot to put that in the photo) and wipe all the components before gluing.
I now use some good old cling wrap and place to layers over my bow form. This stops you gluing the bow blank to the form. (See second photo below)
Next I take all the components out of the hot box and wipe every single piece thoroughly with the methylated spirits. This is VERY important as it removes any grease or oil, which comes from your fingers, and also removes any dirt. You might be surprised what fine bits of dirt come off the lams when you wipe them. The metho will evaporate very quickly from the heated components.
It is now time for gluing.
The first thing I do is place all the components into my hot box (gluing oven) for approximately 10 minutes or so. This will dry any external moisture that may be on them and will aid in evaporating any moisture when I clean the lams just prior to glue up.
While the components are in the hot box I spread paper out over my work bench so I don’t get glue on it and prepare the other things I need.
In the first photo below you will see that I have my all important glue, which is an epoxy. I use Smooth-On EA 40 which is a two part mix similar to your common araldite. I have been using this epoxy for around 15 years and have found it to be exceptional.
The scales are for weighing the glue. It can be mixed 50 – 50 by volume but I prefer to mix by weight.
The butter container is to mix my glue in. When I’m finished it goes in the bin.
The black thing on the tins of glue is an old piece of bow glass that I use for a spreading the glue.
Lastly there is a piece of CLEAN rag which I wet with methylated spirits (forgot to put that in the photo) and wipe all the components before gluing.
I now use some good old cling wrap and place to layers over my bow form. This stops you gluing the bow blank to the form. (See second photo below)
Next I take all the components out of the hot box and wipe every single piece thoroughly with the methylated spirits. This is VERY important as it removes any grease or oil, which comes from your fingers, and also removes any dirt. You might be surprised what fine bits of dirt come off the lams when you wipe them. The metho will evaporate very quickly from the heated components.
It is now time for gluing.
- Attachments
-
- Bow-Making-8.jpg (29.44 KiB) Viewed 14830 times
-
- Bow-Making-7.jpg (24.42 KiB) Viewed 14827 times
- Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
- Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
Glue up.
I now mix my glue. Be sure to thoroughly mix it. I usually mix it for about 3 minutes but this is just habit.
When ready I take my spatular and starting with the back piece of glass I spread an even layer of glue on it. This first piece was already lying on the form as in the last photo above. I then coat one side of the next lam and place the two glued sides together on the form. I do the three lams and then I glue the handle and place it on the form and finally I do the belly lam and glass.
NOTE: Every surface which forms a glue line MUST have glue applied.
You don’t just put glue on one lam and place the next one on top. You must have a glued surface being joined to another glued surface. This is to ensure that you get good glue coverage and that no small area is missed.
Once everything is glued you now have to clamp it together. When everything is glued it becomes rather slippery. I use that clear fibreglass reinforced tape to help hold things in position while I get the top part of the form in place. (see second photo below)
After taping things in place I put a layer of cling wrap over everything to stop the air hose etc sticking to the bow blank.
I now lay thin metal pressure strips on top of the bow blank (see photo 3 below). These help to evenly distribute the pressure of the air hose over the surface of the lams. These are held temporarily in place with some masking tape.
The air hose is now laid on top and the top part of the form is put in place and bolted in position. (see photo 4 below)
I then inflate the air hose. I only inflate it to around 20 pound pressure to start with and leave it for a few minutes. This allows any air that may be trapped to work its way out. Later I inflate the hose up to 65-70 pound pressure.
The whole thing is now placed in the hot box. (see photo 5 below) I have the temp set at 60 degrees and leave it on for around 8 hours. I usually leave the bow blank in the form to cool over night and take it out the next day.
My hot box is made from 12mm ply and the heat is generated by the use of ten 100 watt bulbs. The temp is controlled by a thermostat.
Time to wait for the glue to cure.
I now mix my glue. Be sure to thoroughly mix it. I usually mix it for about 3 minutes but this is just habit.
When ready I take my spatular and starting with the back piece of glass I spread an even layer of glue on it. This first piece was already lying on the form as in the last photo above. I then coat one side of the next lam and place the two glued sides together on the form. I do the three lams and then I glue the handle and place it on the form and finally I do the belly lam and glass.
NOTE: Every surface which forms a glue line MUST have glue applied.
You don’t just put glue on one lam and place the next one on top. You must have a glued surface being joined to another glued surface. This is to ensure that you get good glue coverage and that no small area is missed.
Once everything is glued you now have to clamp it together. When everything is glued it becomes rather slippery. I use that clear fibreglass reinforced tape to help hold things in position while I get the top part of the form in place. (see second photo below)
After taping things in place I put a layer of cling wrap over everything to stop the air hose etc sticking to the bow blank.
I now lay thin metal pressure strips on top of the bow blank (see photo 3 below). These help to evenly distribute the pressure of the air hose over the surface of the lams. These are held temporarily in place with some masking tape.
The air hose is now laid on top and the top part of the form is put in place and bolted in position. (see photo 4 below)
I then inflate the air hose. I only inflate it to around 20 pound pressure to start with and leave it for a few minutes. This allows any air that may be trapped to work its way out. Later I inflate the hose up to 65-70 pound pressure.
The whole thing is now placed in the hot box. (see photo 5 below) I have the temp set at 60 degrees and leave it on for around 8 hours. I usually leave the bow blank in the form to cool over night and take it out the next day.
My hot box is made from 12mm ply and the heat is generated by the use of ten 100 watt bulbs. The temp is controlled by a thermostat.
Time to wait for the glue to cure.
- Attachments
-
- Bow-Making-14.jpg (19.79 KiB) Viewed 14777 times
-
- Bow-Making-12.jpg (32.9 KiB) Viewed 14785 times
-
- Bow-Making-11.jpg (27.58 KiB) Viewed 14787 times
-
- Bow-Making-10.jpg (28.55 KiB) Viewed 14789 times
-
- Bow-Making-9.jpg (32.93 KiB) Viewed 14796 times
- Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
Lou,
To cut the flooring we ripped it up into 40mm wide strips (width of a lam)and then to cut these the opposite way into approx 3.5mm thick pieces as per first photo. A normal bandsaw was used.
After this I then used my linisher to grind the lams parallel to my desired thickness. I then took my master tapers and ground the taper into the lams as explained in my second post.
Hope this explains things for you but if you have any more queries or want more photos let me know as I'm only to glad to help. I won't be able to get anymore photos today though as I don't have a digital camera as my son has it. It is his afterall. Hey Matt want to lend me that 20D for a bit - read forever!
Matt,
As stated above I cure at 60 degrees. I would imagine the pressure in the hose does increase with the heat - I haven't checked because the hose is a small area and you loose pressure very quickly just trying to check. The pressure is always lower when I take the form out of the hot box though. This maybe due to the hose expanding under heat.
I must now go and work on some bows including this one. Catch up later.
Jeff
To cut the flooring we ripped it up into 40mm wide strips (width of a lam)and then to cut these the opposite way into approx 3.5mm thick pieces as per first photo. A normal bandsaw was used.
After this I then used my linisher to grind the lams parallel to my desired thickness. I then took my master tapers and ground the taper into the lams as explained in my second post.
Hope this explains things for you but if you have any more queries or want more photos let me know as I'm only to glad to help. I won't be able to get anymore photos today though as I don't have a digital camera as my son has it. It is his afterall. Hey Matt want to lend me that 20D for a bit - read forever!
Matt,
As stated above I cure at 60 degrees. I would imagine the pressure in the hose does increase with the heat - I haven't checked because the hose is a small area and you loose pressure very quickly just trying to check. The pressure is always lower when I take the form out of the hot box though. This maybe due to the hose expanding under heat.
I must now go and work on some bows including this one. Catch up later.
Jeff
Last edited by Stickbow Hunter on Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
Norman,
The Smooth-On, and a lot of other epoxies I believe, form a considerably stronger bond when cured under temperature. The cure time of the epoxy is also dramatically reduced by applying heat. I have corresponded with the manufacturers of Smooth-On regarding the curing process (temperatures and times etc) and they say that the procedure I use should give excellent results. I have found this to be the case.
Jeff
The Smooth-On, and a lot of other epoxies I believe, form a considerably stronger bond when cured under temperature. The cure time of the epoxy is also dramatically reduced by applying heat. I have corresponded with the manufacturers of Smooth-On regarding the curing process (temperatures and times etc) and they say that the procedure I use should give excellent results. I have found this to be the case.
Jeff