Snake bite treatment

[Mike]

Just thought i would share some info i got talking to a snake handler the other day. I have spent years walking around extremely remote parts of our country often by myself and have had a few close encounters with snakes over the years. I have often wondered what the plan would be should i get bitten - so i asked the question should it happen in the worst possible circumstances:

I was advised that you have approx 2 minutes to apply a full limb pressure bandage and the quicker the better. Apply a splint or a sling. Then try and get to help. Apparently the effects will not be felt for some 6-8 hours if the bandage was applied quickly.
About heart rates and walking i was told that your heart rate will be flat knacker regardless (knowing whats in store for you) so a bit of walking is not the main problem. A bigger problem would be sitting under a tree and waiting for days for help.

The fellow said he always Carry's a bandage on his belt even though he may be next to a hospital and of the many times he has been bitten says that the first effect he has ever felt (other than wet pants) is when the docs remove the bandage and the venom is released into the lymph glands within minutes.

I tend to take a few risks in life but knowing that a simple bandage at hand will almost certainly save your life is peace of mind when walking through the scrub and at a cost of $10 bucks.

[Stickbow Hunter]

Mike,

Good advice. I carried a bandage taped to my hunting belt for many years and I carry a couple in my pack. I had a big Mulga strike at me once but thankfully I moved - very quickly I might ad - at the same time and he missed. I think we all should carry bandages when out bush.

Jeff

[stace]

Jeff and Mike
I fully agree with you Jeff in regards to having a bandage with us ,I also carry Supa Glue ,steri strips ,panadol, chocolate,space blanket ,piece of car tube for lighting a fire in the wet ,matches ,cuppa soups to name but a bit of what I carry
Mike the fact you only have 2 minutesis a tad worrying before the effects are felt ,not a lot of time when the biting culprit is still around
Great thread mate
cheers
stace

[Mike]

Jeff and Stace, i usually carry a bandage but wasnt aware how important the timing of applying the bandage was and also the fact that you can have 6 hours before you get wobbly.

[Torsten]

Hi Mike and All,

at first I needed to laugh because mountain bikers call a snake bite a double-hole caused by rock impakt on a moutain bike tire.

What concerns me here most, are wasps, particularly during August in our country.
Biking and hunting are not so different in that sense: when you get a wasp into your throat your minutes might be counted.

I always carry a 150 - 200 mm air hose, diameter 6 mm in my backpack. You can use it when having "inhaled" a wasp and survive till you get help.

[hellier]

I've also read that the majority of venemous snakes in Oz have fangs that are on average no longer than 4mm, thick socks ??

[yeoman]

Thick socks? More like thick boots and loose fitting heavy denim, but socks help too.

I recently qualidied as an Army Combat Medic, so I had to learn all this stuff. Some of it may be suck-eggs to you, but there might be some out there who might benefit from this little dissertation, so:

It isn't the heart rate which pumps the venom, it's the circulation of lymph fluid, which is completely separate from blood. Lymph is circulated by movement of muscles, which is why you splint: to help reduce the movement of joints. The tight bandage also helps restrict the flow of non-pressurised fluid around the body, ie: blood.

Unless you're bending over to pick up an arrow or something you're probably unlikely to get bitten above 5-6 inches on your leg, I think is the measurement.

Knowing the signs and sypmtoms of a snake bite will help in calming you, even though you know that you're in big trouble.

Nausea: This will happen rather quickly if the bite is untreated, or improperly treated. It may develop as far as vomitting.

Confusion: This goes hand in hand with the nasuea thing.

Sweating: Many of the venoms have a severe diuretic in them, which makes your body get rid of water any way that it can. The victim may feel feverish or very cold.

Frequent urination: This is also a product of the diuretic.

Reduced blood pressure: this is a result of both the loss of fluid, and the venom acting in it's medium-late stages on the circulatory stages. This is where you should no longer be moving at all, and have two IV drips in your arm, at least. The patient will feel very dizzy, poor balance, confused, and etc.

The proper way to apply the dressing is with at least three bandages, but any will help.

1: Check the area for danger. Unless it is a particularly aggressive snake, it probably won't hang around, but be careful. The only thing worse than one person bit is two people bit.

2: If you have gloves, put them on. As much for your own benefit as their's. If there is any venom on the outside of the bite, try to absorb it somehow, then keep the absorber somewhere that the doctors/whoever can get to it. Jindydiver suggests taping it under the tail of the bandage to facilitate ease of analysis of the venom.

3: Asses the patient's level of consciousness. If you're there when it happens then this isn't as important. Try to get them to describe the snake. This is valuable information for the people with antivenom. Keep the pateint talking, and keep talking to them. This helps to delay any lapse of consciousness, and distracts the patient from their prdicament, somewhat.

4: Expose the wound. Cut off their trouser leg, or sleeve or whatever. Don't remove boots or shoes. If the laces are loose, tighten them.

5: Mark the bite with a pen. The punsture marks are generally quite small, and there's usually only one of them. Marking it now will help those who take the patient.

6: With the first bandage, start DIRECTLY OVER the bite mark, and work DOWN THE LIMB to the extremity. Overlap the bandages about 1/2 way on every turn to allow adequate coverage. When you get to the hand/boot top, work your way back up the limb.

7: Mark the bite site again over the bandage.

8: Start either whare the other bandage ended, or at the bite site, depending on how much bandage you have, and work up the limb. Ideally, you should go as far as the groin/armpit. Mark the bite site again if necessary.

9: if it is a leg, splint it to the other leg. If it's an arm, splint with a stick.

10: write down as much as you can. Important things which the ambos will thank you for are:

Time of bite
Description of snake
The exact treatment, incluiding timing of bandages
Location of bite
Any known allergies of patient
Last known food/drink consumed by patient
Name and personal details of patient

The bandage should be tight, but tight enough to still observe blood flow to the very extremeties. On the hand or bare foot, squeeze their finger/toe nail. The blood should flow back within two seconds. With a boot or shoe, lightly squeeze their foot. They should be able to feel light touch.

If you think it it too tight, NEVER take the bandage off to re-apply. If it's too tight: too bad.

Always try to have the limb lower than the heart and lungs. Lower than the rest of the body, in fact.

That's a quick guide to snake bite treatment, as far as my training is concerned. Actually, if I could, I'd have put some IV saline into you, but that's a bit beyond first aid and any first aid kit you can buy, so there you go.

I hope I didn't put y'all to sleep now, y'hear?

Dave

[NCArcher]

Thanks Dave,
excellent post. This i think is very important.

If you think it it too tight, NEVER take the bandage off to re-apply. If it's too tight: too bad.

Most would never have had to apply a pressure bandage and would be worried that they had applied it wrong or too tight and would i think be tempted to remove it and do it better. The fast application of a pressure bandage, even if it is inexpertly applied, is infinitely better than no bandage at all.
Most snakes have small fangs and would struggle to get through jeans and thick socks but a few like the brown snake have fangs that can pierce a thick leather boot. Treat them all with caution.

Tony

[jindydiver]

Great stuff, but a comment on point 2

A lot of snakes in Australia don’t have hollow fangs, but instead have grooves down the back of the fangs and the gums of the snake seal around any wound and inject the poison through pressure. It was taught for a very long time that you should wash the wound to stop further invenomation from the residual around the wound site but we now have much better antivenins available and they require that the snake be identified correctly. It is a good idea to wipe the bite site with a small piece of cloth or tissue and then stick it under the tail of the bandage before you tie it off. This will give the medics something to test so they can give the correct antivenin.

[yeoman]

Very well, I concede that point. Post edited.

Dave

[bear74]

All first aiders are actually taught NOT to wipe or wash the bite area at all, and apply the pressure bandage which should remain in place until medical assistance has been sought!

BEAR

[aussiehunter]

good info..dave i copied ur info and put it on aussiebowhunter, trust u dont mind..

thanks again pat

[Poppy]

G'day folks,
I've been a active herpetologist for over 20 years, having kept and bread many types of snakes, etc.
Much has been written and said about snakes and the treatment of their bite.
To date the best information I have found is on the following link http://www.toxinology.com/
Aussiebowhunter site has a thread regarding emergency situations worth a look. maybe worth putting something on the site.
Cheers
Paul

[jindydiver]

All first aiders are actually taught NOT to wipe or wash the bite area at all, and apply the pressure bandage which should remain in place until medical assistance has been sought!

BEAR

By way of explanation

When I say “wipe the bite site” it is not with a view to cleaning it, but to get a small sample of the venom so that the treating doctor can have the venom identified BEFORE he removes the constrictive bandage. Snakes get misidentified when they are viewed at leisure, so it is likely that someone who has just been bitten is going to have trouble.


Great link Poppy, thanks for posting that

[Mick Smith]

Thanks Paul, that's a very good site.

Mick

[jindydiver]

I spoke to a friend last night who is currently an intensive care nurse (she has worked in many areas of the system) and she tells me that the method they have used to get to the venom for testing is to wrap tape over the bandage above and below the area of the bite and then cut away the bandage over the bite site. They can then sample the venom on the skin and on the bandage they cut away.

She told me that even if I swab the site for a sample they will cut into the bandage to view the site for themselves while the swab is being tested and so it saves less than 15 minutes anyway. It is something you might want to do if you are miles from anywhere and needing the helicopter, but not really any practical use if you are an hour from the hospital.