hardwood footed shafts

[archangel]

Adam said:

Pretty keen to get my hands on some woods. Archangel do you do footed shafts if so do you think you could show me how one day

I know there has been quite a bit of recurring discussion on Bowsite. Is there any value in starting a post with how-to instructions, pics etc. I would be interested to see what techniques people have been using to get the taper, what sort of timber for footings etc. Check out the fine example below.

Has anyone ever tried American rock maple for hunting shafts? I have some left over pieces from an earlier bow-building effort. It's MoH seems very hard, with the straight grain it's easy to plane - I haven't heard any talk about this being used before - maybe too heavy?

[Lou]

I think maple would make excellent arrows. Maple is somewhat heavier than some softwoods like oregon or cedar but also has higher MOE so the arrows can be thinner and for the same spine probably not heavier. Certainly worth giving it a go, particularly knowing that other hardwoods have been used for arrow making, like euro and amer ash for example.

Lou

[Buford]

I would be interested to see what techniques people have been using to get the taper, what sort of timber for footings etc

for a basic 2 winged foot, i taper down the last 150mm of the shaft, making sure the end section of the taper isn't taken to an 'edge', but left flat. The same width as the scroll saw blade used to cut the splice into the footing timber (usually about 1 - 1.5mm).
Purple heart makes for an interesting colour contrast.

[CameronPotter]

Is there any reason that it must be about 150mm long? Could you get away with half that?

If so, you could use a jewellery saw blade and get it down to very pointy edge.

Do you put the footing in before testing the spine?

Cam

[Buford]

Is there any reason that it must be about 150mm long? Could you get away with half that?

If so, you could use a jewellery saw blade and get it down to very pointy edge.

Do you put the footing in before testing the spine?

Cam

150mm is just a nice length, you can go upto about 200mm to alow for tapering etc, any shorter and the splice angle might be a bit too severe, any longer and the F.O.C. balance point shifts towards the centre of the arrow shaft (assuming the 2 timbers have different grains per inch ratings)

I aint never seen me a jewelery saw?

buford

[CameronPotter]

Jewellery saws are effectively coping saws that have screw down clamps at the end instead of little crossbars.

You can get them in ridiculously thin blades. I've got some that are called 8/0 blades and when cutting a line, you only know it is there when the metal falls apart. Should work on wood too, but it would be slow, so I would only use it right up near the tip...

Cam

[Buford]

Should work on wood too, but it would be slow, so I would only use it right up near the tip...

Cam

um.... you've lost me? the tip of the arrow?

[CameronPotter]

I was meaning in the footing.

You talk about leaving a flat end about 1-1.5mm wide as that is the thickness of your scroll saw blade. This would allow you to get to a much thinner point. However, I would scroll saw up to where you usually do, then just use the jewellery blade to cut out the last little triangle.

I hope that was more clear.

Also, how do you get the footing section round? Do you plane it with a normal hand plane? After that do you put it through a metal plate? Finally, which way do you plane (shaft to foot or foot to shaft)?

Cam

[archangel]

I have been using a bandsaw to cut the taper on the shaft while it is still a square billet. Takes a bit of practice but I have found it more accurate. Handsaws are okay but you need a steady hand and a fine-toothed blade to stay on the line. I have seen pics where the person started with an ordinary shaft (POC or ash) then tapered it using a belt sander table. The hardwood footing had a slit cut up the middle about 150mm.

[CameronPotter]

It is not the taper I am concerned about, it is the notch/slit. The taper can be filed to fit. Still, I reckon it might be worth a go.

Cam

[Buford]

I was meaning in the footing.

You talk about leaving a flat end about 1-1.5mm wide as that is the thickness of your scroll saw blade. This would allow you to get to a much thinner point. However, I would scroll saw up to where you usually do, then just use the jewellery blade to cut out the last little triangle.

I hope that was more clear.

Also, how do you get the footing section round? Do you plane it with a normal hand plane? After that do you put it through a metal plate? Finally, which way do you plane (shaft to foot or foot to shaft)?

Cam

oh ok, you dont actually cut a wedge out of the foot. perhapse the attached pics will clear it up.

and yes foot to shaft with a small hand plane.

[Buford]

I have been using a bandsaw to cut the taper on the shaft while it is still a square billet. Takes a bit of practice but I have found it more accurate. Handsaws are okay but you need a steady hand and a fine-toothed blade to stay on the line. I have seen pics where the person started with an ordinary shaft (POC or ash) then tapered it using a belt sander table. The hardwood footing had a slit cut up the middle about 150mm.

footing while still a billet is a great way to do it, but i dont make my shafts from scratch. I usually only foot a shaft after i have driven it into a big ass rock and lost the last 3 inches off it! therefor, i start with the shaft already round.

[CameronPotter]

Thanks for that.

Great pic and cute little clamps!

I now see how it is done...

I suppose you could use this same method to make a 4 winged foot...

Cam

[Buford]

kinda.

fair bit more involved in preping the main shaft. You need a router and tapered jig to cut the grooves.
only difference in the foot itself is instead of 1 cut on 1 side, 3/4's up the length. there is another the same on the next side. so you end up with a cross if you look at the end of the footing timber.

[tracker]

Sadly no Cameron.

To make a 4 way footed shaft you have to shave the shaft like an "extended" philips head screwdriver shape which then fits into the two cross slots you've sawed in the foot piece. This is hard to describe and even harder to do I'd reckon.

I think I have some photos showing the method and the angles from an old article of Glenn Newells in the old bowhunting mag. I'll dig them out and post them and you can see how it's done.

They look FANTASTIC when they're done that way.

[Buford]

They look FANTASTIC when they're done that way.

hell yes!
there is even a way to get a twist into the foot as well which looks too damn good to shoot!!

buford

[Buford]

Woo Hoo!!!

1000 posts for me!!!



dang, i gotta get a life

[CameronPotter]

But why can't you simply do it in two steps?

Step one, make the shaft with a two winged foot.

Step two, take the same shaft, cut off any excess footing (so it just gets below the joint, turn it 90 degrees and proceed as with step 1.

I might be wrong of course...

[CameronPotter]

A twist?

How?

That seems impossible. It is not fair!



Seriously though, is it done with steaming?

[Buford]

shut up, thats why!

nah seriously, if you do it that way, the first footing is basically removed, all bar the end bits anyway, and the second 'winged foot' (any golfers out there? ) is merely overlapping these end bits, so you still only have a 2 wing footing. it would look really good if you used different timbers , but alot of work for not much more IMO.

However..... i have seen something close to that done. if you made a 2 wing foot, then turned the shaft 90 degrees, as you have suggested, then make another 2 wing foot one inch further down the shaft, so the 2 dont over lap it works well.

still not a 4 wing foot, but it looks orgasmic!!

[Buford]

ah yes........ twisted 4 wing foot.

no, no steam. I was shown at last years Hunter valley trad shoot. Very simple but very cleaver.

buford

[CameronPotter]

Now it is me that is confused. Why would you remove the initial footing? If you rotated it 90 degrees the look would be kind of similar to a four winged foot, except I agree that it was made differently.

Maybe my definition of winged is wrong. Isn't a four winged foot basically a foot with four points?

Cam

[Buford]

Now it is me that is confused. Why would you remove the initial footing? If you rotated it 90 degrees the look would be kind of similar to a four winged foot, except I agree that it was made differently.

Maybe my definition of winged is wrong. Isn't a four winged foot basically a foot with four points?

Cam

sorry, when i say remove the initial footing, i don't mean the entire thing.

If you intend the four "points" to line up around the shaft (as per your diagrams) you would have to grind/ sand back most of the first footing to achieve this. Therefor, you are essentialy removing the bulk of the first footing.

Maybe my definition of winged is wrong. Isn't a four winged foot basically a foot with four points?

its only a technicality, but what your proposing (will work) but isn't a four winged footing (not one bit o' timber) its more of 2 winged foot with a decorative 'extra' wing?
Like i said, only a technicality. The "footing" is the whole piece of timer used. the "points/ wings" are just the ands of the splice used to join the 2 timbers together.

does any of that make sense?
If i have to say 'footing' again, it will be too soon!

[archangel]

Cameron wrote:

Also, how do you get the footing section round? Do you plane it with a normal hand plane? After that do you put it through a metal plate? Finally, which way do you plane (shaft to foot or foot to shaft)?

I have seen pics of this being shaved down using a metal lathe. Good on you if you have the skills. I prefer to use a grooved form jig (shown in Glenn's Lore and legend post below) to hold the shaft and footing while you plane away. It stays put quite well. I usually check the footing and make sure I plane with the grain. I have found that working from the footing end towards the tip usually works best.

http://www.ozbow.net/glenn_hand_made_shafts_001.htm

Take it easy as you approach the final diameter that you don't plane the shaft itself. Check as you go against a finished shaft. Rotary sanding (clamp the footed end of the shaft in a drill) from here gets the best finish.

[CameronPotter]

its only a technicality, but what your proposing (will work) but isn't a four winged footing (not one bit o' timber) its more of 2 winged foot with a decorative 'extra' wing?

Thanks for the clarification, but does that mean that gluing two parts of wood together to make a footing (like the way you have described) is also not a two winged footing (as it is not one piece of timber either)?

Anyway, just semantics - I think.

That being said, I started on some dowels last night and have them planed down smooth to glue on the footing sides.

How do you make sure that the two parts of the footing meet correctly at the bit that overhangs the end?

[CameronPotter]

Rotary sanding (clamp the footed end of the shaft in a drill) from here gets the best finish.

Thanks archangel, I will keep it in mind.

Does that mean that you don't use the hole in the steel plate method?

Cam

[Buford]

How do you make sure that the two parts of the footing meet correctly at the bit that overhangs the end?

the footing is made from one peice of timber......

[CameronPotter]

Oh dear. I am all confused again...

In an earlier post you said:

You dont actually cut a wedge out of the foot.

I took that to mean the the two bit on either side were glued together to make the foot (from two parts).

Otherwise, from what it looks like to me, you are cutting a wedge out of the foot.

Unless... Are you just cutting a slit into the wood then seperating it by putting the arrow into that slit? That would make sense...

Doh!



Now I also understand all this stuff about the four winged foot.

Damn. I cut up a bit of wood last night ready to glue slabs onto either side of the shaft. Oops.

At least I now think I know what is going on...

I think...

[Buford]

did you just have a conversation with yourself?

[Buford]

Unless... Are you just cutting a slit into the wood then seperating it by putting the arrow into that slit? That would make sense...

Doh!

this is correct.

does everything i was saying about the " not really a 4 winged foot" make sense now?