Novice Laminated English Longbow (D shape) buildalong

[CameronPotter]

Hi all,

Here is a chance to watch me attempt to make my first bow. It will be an English Longbow and so will have the D cross section with the 8/5 width to depth ratio as suggested.

Initially I wanted to make a self bow and to this end I have scored a nice piece of leatherwood, but after talking to Norman I have decided not to mangle this nice piece of wood during my first attempt (but instead mangle so other unfortunate pieces of wood).

I was planning on starting glueing up tonight, but unfortunately I will be busy.

However, here are some very basic plans as to what I plan on doing.



This is the first step. The leatherwood veneer (already silk backed) and bamboo have graciously been supplied by our very own Gilnockie. Expect to hear further praise as we go along. He was very helpful...

I have decided to make the core from leatherwood for three reasons - one it is good bow wood; two it might make me familiar with working with it, three, the veneer is leatherwood and that way I can limit this to two materials (or four including silk and epoxy).

The next step is to taper the core wood (10mm) down to nothing. I might decide to taper down to about 1mm instead. This is to keep the central section thick enough for a good handle and good strength while the ends will be thin enough.

The final goal is to have a handle the is about 25-30mm thick and nocks that are about 16mm wide.



Then I will add some more core wood (10mm) and the belly wood will be bamboo again.

I do have a concern that the belly wood may not make much difference in a D shaped section bow as a lot of it will be cut away, but for this reason I will be using a D shape that is slightly (but only slightly) flattened in the belly. This should make better use of the bamboo.

I hope to get some photos up soon. But that of course depends on when I get started and can lay it all out.

I am more than willing to answer any question as we go along. I am not sure that I will be able to answer them all though.

Finally, another plug/dislaimer for Norman, anything that goes right with this bow will probably be due to collaboration with with Norman, anything that goes wrong will probably be a beginners mistake from me!! That being said, I do plan on doing this myself (as much as possible), but I wouldn't be this far - especially with equipment and planning - without Norm's help and time.

[erron]

Looking forward to developments, Cameron

Erron

[hubris]

I'll look forward to it

[CameronPotter]

I did start gluing up last night, but my camera is playing up and won't download the photos (I don't have the drivers on this computer - and it is not running XP).

However, it is started and hopefully I might be able to post some piccies tonight.

Now comes the hard part... Waiting for the epoxy to cure properly before I do any more to it!!

I hate waiting.

Cam

[archangel]

Cameron

Looking forward to seeing your pics. You may like to look at this link that I have found quite valuable when using bamboo.

http://residents.bowhunting.net/sticknstring/hbbb1.html

Also, it is well worth taking a look at Norseman's advice on the Stickbow. He is the undisputed master of using bamboo flooring in laminated bows. For one of his current contributions, see How to tiller a bamboo backed bow.

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/tf/lw/th ... CATEGORY=4

[CameronPotter]

Well, the pictures aren't very good...

They were taken at night in a long thin corridor and then when I sized them down to fit within the 200kB picture restriction it lost a bit more...

However, as promised here they are.

The first one is the tools ready go. For the first stage of gluing up. Basically the list is:
some epoxy (with slow hardener),
a whole heap of clamps,
some strips of rubber,
a bit of sandpaper masquerading as the piece I used,
a measurement cup,
a cheapo brush (that had been beaten around to get any loose bristles out) and
the obligatory tissue.
Oh yeah, and the wood...

The back piece of wood is the leatherwood veneer (that is already backed with silk - which is epoxied on). The middle piece of wood is bamboo flooring cut down to be about 30mm wide and about 2.5mm thick. The front piece is the leatherwood being used as the core.

All of these pieces were around 6 feet long - with the veneer being the shortest piece (and so accordingly the length I had to work to).

Also, the leatherwood had a slight flaw, but this was right in the middle of the bow (where the handle will be) and so it should not take too much strain there.

The careful watchers out there will most likely notice two things missing from this picture - latex/rubber gloves to keep the fingrs clean and also some acetone to clean things after using the epoxy.

[CameronPotter]

This picture is the actual gluing up. In the foreground is some other wood (some that will be used for this bow, some that will be used for another bow later on).

Because I am doing this inside to try to cure the epoxy in the warmest conditions possible, and I am using a VERY dodgy slap together bookcase as the bench I have put down newspaper. I also combined this with the ancient and respected technique of "Being Very Careful". Note: You need lot of newspaper to stop the epoxy from soaking through.

There are a few things that should be noticed about this picture.

Firstly, you can see the differing lengths of wood I have used. They all meet at the far end and this close end will simply be cut off. This was so the blemish in the wood was exactly central (I was lucky).

The next thing you might notice is that you need a lot of clamps. I used 10 and could have used twice that number. Which brings us onto another important aspect of the piccie.

To overcome my lack of 20 clamps, I made do by putting a long piece of disposable wood along the top of the rubber before clamping. This meant that the force was spread more evenly. The downside was that the rubber lengths I had were not quite the same thickness. (Or more correctly two were the same and the third was thinner). I had to bulk up the third's thickness to be the same as the other two. This was easily accomplished with newspaper.

This morning I took it all apart and the stave was of course stuck to all the newspaper at the bottom, however, I patted myself on the back.

Why? Because I had the forethought to see this happening and so place the wood that would be being planed on the bottom with the lovely veneer face up.

Now I need to leave it a while to let the epoxy cure properly then start the initial shaping phase.

Thanks for reading this far all you experienced types.
I hope that this might help all you who might be struggling to try to figure out how to make a bow... like me.

[CameronPotter]

http://residents.bowhunting.net/sticknstring/hbbb1.html

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/tf/lw/th ... CATEGORY=4

Thanks for that archangel!

The top website there is very useful for something I plan on doing in the future. You may notice that in my gluing picture there is a piece of outer bamboo and also a thicker piece of leatherwood. That is almost exactly what I plan to do with these. However, I think the little tillering helper is possibly the best bit about that page.

As for the second one, I thought that probably the best bit was in choosing the right kind of bamboo flooring (ie vertical grain). Luckily for me this was already done as Norman (Gilnockie online) gave me my bamboo pieces!

Thanks for the links though.

Cam

[Buford]

F1 fan by any chance?

[CameronPotter]

F1 fan by any chance?

I just knew that someone was going to read those book titles!!

[Buford]

yep. Leave it to me to bring up the irrelivant.

buford

[erron]

Just beat me to it, Matt

Interesting thread, thanks Cam!

Erron

[Mick Smith]

Cameron,

Good job so far mate. I sort of envy you guys, having the confidence to tackle building a bow. I'd like to have a go one day, but my abilities are stretched to the limit just making mediocre arrows.

Mick

[CameronPotter]

Good job so far mate. I sort of envy you guys, having the confidence to tackle building a bow. I'd like to have a go one day, but my abilities are stretched to the limit just making mediocre arrows.

Mick

Hey Mick,

From where I am standing, arrows seem look hard to make!! So far this bow building lark hasn't been too tough - mind you, so far I have barely begun... I will wait and see how the tillering goes before I can truly judge how difficult it is to build a bow. Mind you, that said, if this works out (and I put enough info. up) why not have a go, it is not expensive (or not too expensive I should say).

That is one of the reasons I am putting this thread up, so others who may not have had a go in the past might feel inspired - or even so they can see that you don't need to be a master to give it a try.

Cam

[CameronPotter]

The electric plane I was intending on using to cut down the stave for the next gluing step was unfortunately not in Hobart (down at my girlfriends shack) this weekend. Thusm I need to wait until it comes back.

In the mean time, I have bought a bit of unwaxed linen from the local leatherwork shop dyed it up and made a bowstring. I hope it is about the right length... I won't be too fussed if it isn't though. It was pretty easy to make. It is a 14 strand Flemish Twist in 2 lays. I haven't whipped it yet (I have forgotten the correct term).

Cam

[yeoman]

Cam,

I think the term you're looking for is 'serve'.

Good work on the bow so far. The real fun starts when you start seeing wood bend

Dave

[archangel]

Cam

Well done so far. Great to follow your progress. With your next bow (the building bug does get to you) have a try at putting some ordinary baking paper under your laminations before you lay them. It works exactly like cooking biscuits, being non-stick you don't have that awful mess with torn newprint stuck all over the stave.

[yeoman]

Wrapping the entire bow in gladwrap also works. I hear that the epoxy doesn't bond to the particular polymer of plastic that the wrap is made of.

Epoxy also doesn't stick readily to innertube rubber.

Dave

[Stickbow Hunter]

Cam,

Good job so fare and I hope all goes well. Look forward to photos as you proceed further with this project. I also use gladwrap to stop the epoxy gluing things together.

Jeff

[CameronPotter]

Thanks for the tips, unfortunately I should have checked this about 3 hours ago. I bit the bullet and cut it down with the plane.

It now almost looks like a bow!

Mind you it is a little thin on the ends... But this is being rectified.

I am now gluing the second piece of leatherwood on (unfortunately I used newspaper again). Gladwrap is a very good idea... However, the newspaper is not a problem because while it is not pretty, it is only getting stuck to wood I am going to plane anyway. The back is always at the top of the stave in direct contact with the rubber so there is no tendency for it to get epoxy on it in the first place and would not stick if it did. Mind you the gladwrap trick would be good for the belly. I will give it a go.

After thinking about the design I talked about it with Norman and we have re-evaluated it. The new design incorporates trimming down the second leatherwood piece before adding the final bamboo belly.

The bow will be (each in 6 inch intervals)
16mm
20mm
24mm
27mm
30mm
33mm
35mm
33mm
30mm
27mm
24mm
20mm
16mm
wide in the at the handle (measured across the back). Then the belly will be 5/8ths of the thickness. These measurements should make a bow of about 55-60lbs which I will tiller down to about 45lbs.

I will hopefully have piccies in the morning.

Finally, yes, serving is exactly what I meant.

[CameronPotter]

This is the string I made. It is reddish-brown and yellow (the colours my bow is to be). I will serve it in black (the colour my leather handle is to be).

My only concern is that it is a little short. How do you judge this?

ie What bend should a bow have when strung?

The string is 147cm long, my bow will be just under six feet long (due to the shorter length of the silk backed veneer).

[CameronPotter]

These two piccies are the tools I used for this step (of shaping the bow) and the bow as it is being planed down. Right now it is in my shed being glued to another piece of leatherwood ready for some more shaping before the final belly strip is glued and the bow is tillered.

The plane is actually missing forn the tools table, as it was on the bench itself.

Cam

[yeoman]

If your string is 147cm long, and your bow is just a shade under 6ft, which is 188cm, I'd say that your string is about a foot too short. Most strings for longbows are about 3-4 inches (7.5-10cm) shorter than the length of the bow. No matter, you now have a string for a future bow which may be around the 62 inch range in length.

Good work, keep the piccies coming,

Dave

[CameronPotter]

Most strings for longbows are about 3-4 inches (7.5-10cm) shorter than the length of the bow. Dave

Thanks Dave,

I had a feeling that was the case... The funny thing is that I thought that I was making it too long (according to the plans) but I guess not. My calculations puts 6 feet about 183cm (182.88cm to be precise). I think my bow is somewhere around 170-175 cm, but that is still much too long for a string that is about 147cm long. Still, the string was easy to make. The problem is that the dying took a while to dry out.

Still, I now know that a 71 inch long set of linen strands will be used to make a string about 150 cm long. Thus I need to add about 20 cm ie make the entire string length from about 79 inch strands.


I wonder if anyone has a use for a 147 cm long string???

Cam

[yeoman]

I reckon it'd fit a longer recurve.

Dave

[archangel]

Cam, I made the same mistake with my first two strings. I just didn't get it the first time. I built my own string jig and thought I had followed the instructions for measuring the strands carefully. I ended up with strings that were 6" shorter than I needed, until I realised that I had not added on the extra length for the nock loops. All the hard work dying the strands was lost.

Yeoman's tip is pretty spot on.

Most strings for longbows are about 3-4 inches (7.5-10cm) shorter than the length of the bow.

Another way is to use a generic string and make adjustments. For a new bow, use a longer string with only one nock loop, at the other end is an adjustable timber hitch. After shooting a few arrows, adjusting the tiller etc, measure between the loops and you have a really accurate measurement.

The other possibility involves a more radical plan - maybe the bow itself is too long? Shortening each end will fix this problem, but of course, will alter the draw weight. However, if your bow is underpowered this may be an alternative. Trying to predict a draw weight using bamboo flooring laminations is still guess work at best. Good on you if you are able to get almost spot on with your anticipated weight.

[CameronPotter]

I reckon it'd fit a longer recurve.

Dave

Oh dear... More projects!!

I might just put that one away for a while though... It didn't ake long to make the string anyway and I have HEAPS of linen thread. It gives the hands something to do while watching telly.

Cam

[CameronPotter]

I ended up with strings that were 6" shorter than I needed, until I realised that I had not added on the extra length for the nock loops. All the hard work dying the strands was lost.

I thought that I had left enough for that... I had assumed that (by what I read) you measured the bow length and made the string the same length, the extra shortening from making the nock loops was what would bend the bow.

Mind you, I guess I thought wrong...

As for timber hitches and draw weight.

I don't want to use a timber hitch. I would prefer to make a few strings of the wrong size.

I don't want to cut down the bow, as I am already thinking it might be a little on the short side.

I know that getting the weight right will be tricky, in fact it will be REALLY tricky. However, I am happy to just make what I make and if it is too heavy, I have something to aim for, if it is too light, then I can start thinking about cutting it down...

Cam

[CameronPotter]

Last night I made another string. This time it is one colour (plain linen) as I didn't have time to dye it - although some other string is dying right now.

It is 67.5 inches long without any twist in it. My guess is that my bow might be about 68-69 inches between the nocks. A few gentle twists should reduce this string to the right length. Woohoo.

Now to find/get some serving.

What do you guys use? Do you have to use "proper" archery serving? What did they use back in the good ol' days?

[CameronPotter]

If all goes well tonight, I will start tillering the bow. I will cut it down to the dimensions it should be (taking into account a backing of 2.5mm bamboo). Only it will be remaining as a rectanglular section. I will then try to make it to to a little below the correct draw weight (around 45 lbs@28 inches) and make it have a smooth curve.

Then, I will glue the bamboo backing on. Once the glue is dried, I will round the belly of the stave to get to my desired draw weight. At least that is the plan!

Tonight may well be the making (yipee) or breaking (hopefully not literally) of this bow.

Wish me luck.