Plum tree for bowmaking?

[Blinkybill]

Hi all,
I haven't been on here for a while as I haven't really been shooting heaps for the last few months. Anyway, I was helping my Oupa get rid of a plum tree that was in the way and I noticed there were quite a few long, straight lengths of the wood. It is still a little green. I was wondering if any of you guys have tried using plum for bowmaking before. Or if you guys think it would be worth trying.
Thanks,

Ben

[Mububban]

No idea mate but we should tee up another Hoddywell day

[roscoe]

BLINKYBILL
DO YOU HAVE TRADITIONAL BOWYERS BIBLE? IF NOT I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU OBTAIN VOLS 1&2. I have not long bought them my self and they have opened the door to me making all wood bows. If that cherry tree is fairly straight and has no knots or pins in it and you season the timber right then it will make a bow with the right limb profile, this is where TTB vol 1&2 will help you. How good a bow it will make is another thing? I have just made two bows for my kids this week for them to take down to the gladstone shoot. I wont attempt a bow made from a log yet until i get a bit more practice under my belt with board bows. But iam hooked in making them now and i have to say iam addicted to making wood bows. good luck.... Roscoe

[Blinkybill]

Hi Roscoe,
Thankyou for the reply. I might look around to buy those books then. However, board bows do not interest me at all, although I do really like the look of the more traditional looking longbows so those books sound like they might be useful.

Hi Mububban,
Hoddywell sounds great! And I have a new bow to show and tell too! Ill send you a message

Thanks,
Ben

[perry]

Blinky, basically any tree that produces fruit or nuts is worth a look. At I guess I'd say that plum would be suited to a wide flatbow design. Bow Length? Double your draw length plus 12" is a good rule of thumb. Save the shorter bows for when you have a little more experience tillering. Longer bows are more forgiving for the new bow maker as they are under less strain than shorter designs and allow a little latitude to lop an inch or 2 off each end if your bow turns out underweight or you make some other error that could be corrected in this manner.

Be prepared to splice shorter billets after they have seasoned properly to make full length stave's. If you have a stave that's long enough I recommend you work it down so it flex's evenly at each end. Don't give it a big bend, just slight. This stage is called floor tillering. Thin timber dries more uniformly, quickly and will not develop drying checks as readily or warp as when left thicker. As it dries it will take more effort to bend. I work down my stave's so they take about the amount of effort to bend against the floor slightly as the final draw weight I'm chasing.

Don't dismiss Board Bows. They where tree's once too. Sometimes I wonder if Board Selfbows are seen as the poor cousins of split stave Selfbows. They take all the same skills and knowledge to make into Bows. You can coax a lumpy character bow out of a board if it has violated growth rings by working the back down to a single ring. You would never know it come from aboard and not a stave. Boards suitable for bows are often cheaper and more readily available, not to mention less work than cutting a tree and splitting it into stave's. Very often your board is seasoned and ready to go. Try your hand at turning Pick, Ave or Shovel handles into Selfbows as they require the same characteristics as good bow wood.

The 4 Bowyer's Bible books are a must have and bulging with information. They spell out the basic procedures very well. But keep in mind they are American archers writing about American experiences and timber, present American Bias and are not necessarily 100% relevant to Australia. Not all the information translates into anything other than general info when applied to Aussie timbers. There are lots of knowledgeable and gifted wood bow makers in Australia only too willing to assist you.

regards Jacko

[Blinkybill]

Thank you for such a detailed reply, Jacko. That helps a lot. I will go round tomorrow and grab some of the timber and see what I can do.
I think I have misunderstood a little. Is a boardbow a flatbow? or is it purely and selfbow made from a board of timber, rather than a log? What I meant, is that Im not really a big fan of flatbows and glass longbows. I prefer, for example, the english longbow style.
Its great that we have so many longbow makers so close to home. It makes finding information a lot easier. Especially when its all organised into one place like it is on this forum
Thanks for the help,

Ben

[Mububban]

Flatbow refers to the shape. When looking at the belly or back of the flatbow unstrung, it has a slim handle, then flares out from there (fadeouts) and then slims back down as it tapers towards the tips. Good diagram here:

www.zetatalk.com/food/tfood41e.htm

Whereas the ELB design has the straight handle as the thickest point of the bow, no flareouts, it just tapers down in a strait line between handle width and tip width.

I think a victorian longbow has the same basic shape, but the handle is gently scalloped inwards?

I use a flatbow shape for my little kiddy bows and they zip arrows out quite well.

[otis.drum]

Perry, have you had any experience/success with mango staves? loads of old mango trees around weipa. would make great character bows i would think.

[roscoe]

Otis
Have you tried mangoe timber your self. because i have heaps of tall straight wild ones growing at the back of my place??.... Roscoe

[otis.drum]

no rocoe, there are heaps of old gnarly ones around weipa so i thought i'd ask the question.

i would think if yours aren't really young wood they'd be worth a try, not that i would know, i just asked the question to see if perry/anyone has tried it.

[longbow steve]

Hi Otis, I have some Mango billetts drying ATM but will probably use it for risers as it is a nice looking wood. I asked the question a while back and Glen Newell said someone in QLD has been successful with it. Worth a try, get one cut

[otis.drum]

steve,
i just cut mangrove, wattle, ironwood and what i think might be sheoak (but could be anything. grows on the beach up here, is tall, brown wood, medium weight, with needle like leaves sort of similar to pine, branches sort of droop)

also looking at getting some ironbark when out in the dry scrub next (soon) and some black palm when i get around to it. so i have plenty of staves, but a couple more can't hurt can they

what does the mango look like? what colour and grain. i have about 5 varieties up here so it's going to be pot luck gettting a good variety. also have cashew nut. wonder how that would go?

[longbow steve]

As Perry said, any fruit and nut trees are worth a go. I was going to say I will plane up some mango and post a pic but as you may know I dont have a camera anymore.
The Ironwood, Cooktown Iron wood maybe? I have heard the saw dust can cause alot of allergic reactions so be cautious. Greame K cut some mangrove but i dont know that he has worked it yet. You can never have to much wood drying, especially different varieties to help keep it interesting. Steve

[longbow steve]

http://www.mattblatt.com.au/9483-Solid- ... ?p5016c137
Above is a link to a mango wood table. Steve

[otis.drum]

thanks steve,
yes cooktown ironwood. full of arsnic is the big problem. i've never had reactions from it.

the mangrove is supper heavy when green (heavier than ironwood)

[perry]

G/Day fella's never used Mango for bows. I did use some from an old Stringy Mango tree I had to remove from a place I used to live for footing arrows, sort of a yellow tan with blackish streaks, looked nice but it was reasonably light mass wise. Impressions where it would be best suited to a flatbow Design as it did not look to me it would be great under compression. For interests sake I cut some Mulberry years ago and made a good bow from it.

Gary P has tried Cooktown Ironwood with little success. He'd be best to comment if he see's this thread, he's off touring in a motor home just now. From memory he had some issue's with the quality of the timber.

I have heard of folks trying She Oak for Selfbows. Don't recall any outstanding success stories. I'm sure it has quite a low compression modulus rating

Glenn Newell told me years ago that Mangrove, at least the stuff growing down this way made a good Selfbow but it is very dense and hard and required a flatbow design with needle tips

Blinky, the D section longbow is not particularly well suited to any Australian timbers or even Aussie grown Plum, perhaps Red Ash alphitonia excelsaor as it seems to be common to the best D section bows I've seen made from Aussie timber and it does grow way up north in WA also. You could import some Yew, it will be Pacific Yew and likely cost about $800 a bow stave. One of the reasons Yew is so highly regarded as a Selfbow timber is it's suitability to the D section design. It's a light springy timber with a high compression ability. In general terms a D cross section focus's compression along the narrow section of the belly and excessive string follow and compression fractures will occur when unsuitable timbers are used with this design.

A flat bow has a broader area bearing the load of compression and is a safer design for beginners and a great many timbers with generally speaking less likelihood of excessive string follow or compression fractures so long as the bow maker does his job . It's many variations are a very widespread and popular design all around the world since prehistoric times. A flat bow does not have the romance attached to it the classic longbow D section bow has but gives away nothing in performance when compared to the D section bow. Research the Flatbow, they where commonly used in medieval England and Europe.

regards Jacko

[muntries]

Tasmanian Blackwood can also be a shocker to work with, the dust from that has given me nose bleeds before. Only ever wear a respirator with that stuff!

[roscoe]

Otis, Cannon ball mangrove is very decorative, and its solid wood, wood turners love it. They call it strawberry wood, its got red and white wood in layers, from memory. It likes to grow more in brackish water, I saw one not long ago will fishing. Next time i go up river i will get a better look at it, if it does make a bow it would be an eye opener thats for sure..... Roscoe

[roscoe]

Sorry i forgot to mention, its called strawberry mangrove and its botanical name is xylocarpus. I think the fruit when dried out is called puzzle fruit.

[muntries]

Would make a beautiful riser wood

[Blinkybill]

Thanks very much for your help Perry. I will have a look around at flat bows and i'll probably use your advise and try flatbows first with that plum wood that I moved.

Ben

[GrahameA]

Hi Perry.

G/Day fella's never used Mango for bows.

I believe it was used by the Mughals in the construction of their composites. Listen to what Lukas Novotny has to say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGcYGwqb3So about 3:10 into the clip.

[perry]

Thank's for that link Grahame. I have a copy of that clip, got it off Rob at the North Albert shoot and had forgotten that Mango was mentioned as a core wood of Mughal composites. Now you've got me wondering about why specifically it was chosen, was it first choice, exactly which variety of Mango etc.

regards Jacko