After reading just about every thread here, and other trad forums I think I am finally ready to have crack at building a selfbow............ finding timber here in sunny Orange has proved to be impossible so further afeild I must go. My question is , Can I simply back a floorboard bow with say fibreglass to help strength and decrease the chance of breaking? OR, am I barking up the wrong tree?
Kind Regards
Pete
Selfbow in the making!!
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petenaylor
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Selfbow in the making!!
Last edited by petenaylor on Thu May 20, 2010 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Backing a Selfbow??
Hi Pete, I am only a learner myself but I have made a few bows from spotted gum floorboards, one of which you can see in my photo, which are unbacked and is 55#@28" and is only 53" long. I do not know if that helps in anyway? I have also used merbour (I think that is how it is spelt) decking from bunnings but the grain has to be right.
Good luck and just have a go.
Ron
Good luck and just have a go.
Ron
may your arrows fly straight and true and your limbs return.
Re: Backing a Selfbow??
Hi Pete,petenaylor wrote:Can I simply back a floorboard bow with say fibreglass to help strength and decrease the chance of breaking? OR, am I barking up the wrong tree?
Kind Regards
Pete
If you back the bow with fibreglass you have to be careful that the glass does not cause failure in the timber substrate. Once backed with glass it will not be a selfbow.
The local sawmill, if you have one may have flitches? offcuts from the outer of the log which could be suitable for a selfbow.
Alternatively you could try to buy a suitable piece of timber, work the back of the bow to a single growth ring and bring up the belly. The growth rings shown in the photo are a little erratic but should give you an idea what to look for in a piece of timber.
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"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
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petenaylor
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:58 pm
- Location: Orange N.S.W
Re: Backing a Selfbow??
Thankyou for the help. I have been following this " http://poorfolkbows.com/oak.htm " as it seems to be quite simple. I build furniture but ironically the bow scares the crap out of me! In his build-a-long he backs the bow with sheetrock tape and wood glue thus my question re the fibreglass. Does this mean that his bow is not a self bow?Woodie do you have any other photos?? Since yesterday I found a piece of Karri ( I think) beautiful pink in colour and dead straight grain any thoughts on it as a stave....I guess if its gonna break its gonna break......
Pete
Pete
Re: Backing a Selfbow??
Hi Pete, what type of photos do you mean? I do not hat anyting at the momant.
karri might be alright from what I have read about it. Like you said if it breaks it breaks, give it a go.
Ron
karri might be alright from what I have read about it. Like you said if it breaks it breaks, give it a go.
Ron
may your arrows fly straight and true and your limbs return.
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petenaylor
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:58 pm
- Location: Orange N.S.W
Re: Backing a Selfbow??
Sorry Ron, pics of the bows you have made,would love to see them My stave is coming along great, shaped it out with electric planer tonight, did'nt think that would work but it did. Lovely grain and timber colour, will add riser and start TILLERING , **** scared..........
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Re: Backing a Selfbow??
A friend told me he didn't like karri in compression but it did well in tension, so I'll be interested to see how your bow goes. Keep us posted!
If I can find some local karri boards I might try using it as a backing for a bamboo bow
If I can find some local karri boards I might try using it as a backing for a bamboo bow
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petenaylor
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:58 pm
- Location: Orange N.S.W
Re: Selfbow in the making!!
OK...... Added riser using a piece of maple and an offcut of the Karri ( or whatever it is) to add a little flair!! This is also where I started to stuff up somewhat. Because the floor board I used started out with 'grooves' on the belly, I had to plane it flat ,or as it seems , not flat, to glue the riser laminates on. I had no epoxy in the shed so the maple was wood glued and blind screwed,yes screwed, to the stave, then the Karri glued to the maple, and the whole thing clamped for 24 hours!! Ugly pretty well sums it up but after some sanding I think I am ready to start tillering. I dont really know what type of selfbow is being forged here but I just thought I would share the adventure/torture!!!!!!!
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petenaylor
- Posts: 8
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Re: Selfbow in the making!!
Yeh.... Like Glenn says can't beat epoxy. Unfortunately my riser popped due to wood glue, and because its screwed as well there is a hairline gap which I cant re-glue without wrecking it. So I have learned not to use wood glue. Also, whilst tillering got a bit carried away on one limb with the belt sander and formed the hinge from hell that I can't remove. It has'nt actually broken but it will!!!! I am going to finish the bow for the practise but it will never shoot .Oh well have already got another board,Spotted Gum this time for attempt number two. For anyone interested the Karri is a beautifull timber however it did seem to take on a lot of set????? I don't know if that is a tension / compression issue of Karri ,however the bow had about 2.5 inches of set and its not even finished. Can I save the limb??
On to next stave. It is addictive
On to next stave. It is addictive
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petenaylor
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- Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:58 pm
- Location: Orange N.S.W
Re: Selfbow in the making!!
Well here is bow with handle and shelf cut in.I decided to continue with it as a practice run and quite disappointed that the limb failed as I think it may have been a shooter. Is it possible to back the bow with bamboo to repair and strengthen the limbs?? The limb isnt broken just weak in one spot. Also I ued a "flapper" disc on my angle grinder to shape the handle and arrow rest , absolutely fantastic. Sorry about photos , used phone not the camera......
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Re: Selfbow in the making!!
I see no reason why you could not repair your project with a backing strip of bamboo. Thing to remember with bamboo is it is amazingly strong in tension and if you leave the bamboo thick it will overpower the belly of your bow. The hinge you have in the limb will still be present but the extra thickness and draw weight added by the bamboo strip should enable you to work it out unless it's a disaster.
If things go south on the Belly side you could flatten it and laminate on a strip of timber or if all you don't have the machinery to cut lamination's or if it's easier to get Bamboo is a fair 2nd choice. Raw Bamboo is lousy under compression so it would follow the string, you could heat treat a Bamboo belly lamination and it could work well. With the raw Bamboo you could also draw the bow back into massive reflex, laminate on the raw strip and tiller. Another option is to grind out the hinge, glue and pin a plug in place and leave it proud much as you would a large knot.
I have seen many bamboo backed bows where the bamboo was several mm thick on the sides and all these bows had way more string follow than they would if the bamboo was thinner. By way of example this photo of a section of my Penobscot bow illustrates the shorter back bow which I salvaged from a mates failed Bamboo backed Crows Ash flatbow project because he left the Bamboo too thick, note how much thinner the Bamboo is on the main bow. The edges on both are radiused so the Bamboo looks thick but when built before radiusing the Bamboo on the main bow was nearly knife edged.
Thing to remember with Bamboo is that it's crowned and if it's 5mm thick on the edges it will thicker in the middle. Flatten the fibre side of your bamboo, profile the bamboo to the profile of your bow and then taper from the centre of your Bamboo strip to the extremities until you end up with a thin edge that follows the profile shape of the bows back, close to a knife edge is best. This will ensure the bamboo is thin enough not to immediately overpower the belly of your bow or promote string follow.
Fades with angles like that are fine on laminated fibreglass bows as you laminate over the top of them but pose problems on bows like this. I realise you started with a floor board so it's shallow to start with. Best to start with a thicker board then glue on shallower riser blocks to make the depth of handle you like. You can also laminate several thin pieces on instead of thick pieces. This results in a little flex being taken up through more glue lines and in my experience less opportunity to pop the riser. You could also hide the popped riser block buy binding over it, for decoration of coarse if anyone asks
Next project if you are limited to floor boards consider a working handle Selfbow, you can pad the grip out if you wish. I find the smaller grip profiles better looking and more comfortable to use but understand why people choose the familiarity of the modern flatbow riser design.
regards Jacko
If things go south on the Belly side you could flatten it and laminate on a strip of timber or if all you don't have the machinery to cut lamination's or if it's easier to get Bamboo is a fair 2nd choice. Raw Bamboo is lousy under compression so it would follow the string, you could heat treat a Bamboo belly lamination and it could work well. With the raw Bamboo you could also draw the bow back into massive reflex, laminate on the raw strip and tiller. Another option is to grind out the hinge, glue and pin a plug in place and leave it proud much as you would a large knot.
I have seen many bamboo backed bows where the bamboo was several mm thick on the sides and all these bows had way more string follow than they would if the bamboo was thinner. By way of example this photo of a section of my Penobscot bow illustrates the shorter back bow which I salvaged from a mates failed Bamboo backed Crows Ash flatbow project because he left the Bamboo too thick, note how much thinner the Bamboo is on the main bow. The edges on both are radiused so the Bamboo looks thick but when built before radiusing the Bamboo on the main bow was nearly knife edged.
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Thing to remember with Bamboo is that it's crowned and if it's 5mm thick on the edges it will thicker in the middle. Flatten the fibre side of your bamboo, profile the bamboo to the profile of your bow and then taper from the centre of your Bamboo strip to the extremities until you end up with a thin edge that follows the profile shape of the bows back, close to a knife edge is best. This will ensure the bamboo is thin enough not to immediately overpower the belly of your bow or promote string follow.
Fades with angles like that are fine on laminated fibreglass bows as you laminate over the top of them but pose problems on bows like this. I realise you started with a floor board so it's shallow to start with. Best to start with a thicker board then glue on shallower riser blocks to make the depth of handle you like. You can also laminate several thin pieces on instead of thick pieces. This results in a little flex being taken up through more glue lines and in my experience less opportunity to pop the riser. You could also hide the popped riser block buy binding over it, for decoration of coarse if anyone asks
Next project if you are limited to floor boards consider a working handle Selfbow, you can pad the grip out if you wish. I find the smaller grip profiles better looking and more comfortable to use but understand why people choose the familiarity of the modern flatbow riser design.
regards Jacko
"To my deep morticication my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' "
- Charles Darwin
- Charles Darwin
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petenaylor
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:58 pm
- Location: Orange N.S.W
Re: Selfbow in the making!!
Thanks Jacko!! I sourced some bamboo "lamelle" from QLD and decided to plane the back of the bow flat whilst waiting for the boo to arrive. As usual impatience got the better of me and yesterday as I was "fiddling" (quote wife) the limb snapped at the fracture site....... Have started next bow and hopefully will have learned from my mistakes. I watched Dean Torges DVD and wow what an inspiration he is. He makes it look so simple. I am also going to salvage the riser from bow one and maybe make my son a little T/D longbow when the lamelle arrives