Laminated arrows..?

[kimall]

Does anyone here make laminated arrow shafts themselves I thought I might give it a go since I cant use my lovely carbons at the shoots.
Cheers KIM

[otis.drum]

what wood would you use n them Kim? and what thickness/number of lams for the sized/weighted shafts your after?

[Stickbow Hunter]

I think I recall a thread or two on here in the past where someone made their own laminated shafts. Also Steve Wallace (hubby of little arrows) makes them I believe. I'm sure you will enjoy shooting real arrows Kim.

Jeff

PS here is a link to one of the threads: http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.p ... fts#p11714

[kimall]

Yer good on you Jeff I have been down the wood arrow road before but grew out of it.
The carbons I am shooting are 680 grains and they are just right so it may be a bit hard to get them that heavy as I was going to use the hoop pine floor board that I made the last ones out of and add a lamination of ironbark up the middle for affect.As I type this I am thinking mabey ironbark with a hoop pine centre would give a heavier shaft.
I SHOULD just buy some wood shafts spined right to start with but I figure that I made the bow I would like to make the arrows too.This is prob why I steer away from wood they are just too much work.
Off to the shed now I will give an update later..........might even take some pics.
Cheers KIM..
PS Thanks for the link Jeff.

[Gringa Bows]

Kim have you tried the German pine i think Blue dog Paul was saying they were over 600 grn bare shafts ............Rod

[kimall]

MMM no mate that might be an option but I will frustrate myself first for a week or two and then look at buying something.
Cheers KIM

[longbowinfected]

Foot some german pine or hoop pine with hardwood.

Kev

[kimall]

Ok a little update but no pics yet.I got the laminations done and glued last night and unclamped them this morning.I used titebond 3 wood glue and the glue lines are perfect.I cut them into square stock and then took the corners off and then rounded them down.They turned out great but a bit light in the spine for my bows as I cut them a bit thin but it was a experiment so that was to be expected I guess.The weight will be just nice on some the right thickness.So now I have some round laminated shafts that with some tinkering will be just the ticket.
However the prob with me doing this type of thing is it sort of developes along the way and I found with a new jig I made up today to take the corners I can now make a shaft with 8 equal sides and they look great with the ironbark lamination running up the middle.I have wanted to do octagonal shafts for ages but was not able to get the 8 edges even enough but now that prob has been eliminated and I feel that there are some real advantages to this type of shaft.
I have also worked out I can taper them at the same time with my jig so I will have some octagonal,tapered laminated arrows for the shoots soon.
I told you wood arrows are a lot of work.
Cheers KIM

[Gringa Bows]

Very interesting looking forward to seeing them at the muster Kim................Rod

[longbowinfected]

Kim,

what was the spine and mass of the lighter arrows you made?
If they are around 400 grains or a bit more and spined around 45# I would be interested....if you can bring yourself to part with them.

Kev

[kimall]

Pics up toomorrow.Kev I need arrows for one of the lighter bows I made not long ago so they will prob go there.
Cheers KIM

[UPTHETOP]

Kim will be good to see you at the muster, dont forget to throw in some of your knifes so I can have a look at them along with those shafts they sound very interesting. Any excuse to work with wood mate.

Cheers Wayno

[kimall]

It rained here today and I had to fix Mums gas heater too so did not get as much done as I would have hoped.I am making a doz plain hoop pine shafts first so I at least have some sticks to shoot at the upcoming events and am also working on the tapered octagonal shafts at the same time.A 30 inch hoop pine shaft with a 125 tip is just under 600 so a bit light but wow dont they fly flat at a bit under 10 grain per pound.I have 2 done with nocks and points so far and bare shafted out to about 20 yards shooting perfect.
I have glued up the next test laminations which will do 4 arrows thicker this time and with the new jig will be much more precise with all the 8 sides being exactly the same with the hardwood up the middle again so they should get up to the weight I am after.
Here is a pic with the front shaft being round and the back one 8 sided.
Cheers KIM..

[Gringa Bows]

They look good Kim,do you think a thicker lam. of iron bark would get you closer to the weight your after .................Rod

[kimall]

Yer mate but when I taper them the 3 laminations all have to be exactly the same thickness or the joins wont be even with the points of the octogon.I think I have the perfect combo now with the glue drying as we speak.On the solid shafts its interesting that on the spine gauge they test almost the same from any direction unlike a normal shaft that is differant from side or top and bottom.This is one of the things that I love about them.
Cheers KIM

[Nephew]

Kim, I am convinced there is NOTHING you can't do well! Btw, how do you attach round points to an octagonal arrow?

[hue]

silly question here mate, will you shoot then as octagons? they look spectacular!
how would the shape affect their aerodynamics?
and do you have a spare set for a 54lbs longbow?

Hue

[kimall]

Thanks Moreton I just seem to get a bit lucky sometimes.When I taper the point that will make the tip round and I will need to round the area for the feathers also but I will make it a gradual smoothing of the edges.Hue I cant see that it will affect the aerodynamics and any affect will be compensated by with the consistency they seem to have.Even if they are not an improvement on the normal design I love the look of them.
Cheers KIM

[Gringa Bows]

Ay Kim ,how are the arrows coming along,have you finished a couple of dozen yet

[kimall]

The octies are on hold until I get a doz plain pine ones finished so I at least have some arrows to shoot then onto the weird ones again.
Cheers KIM

[roscoe]

kimall
Those shafts look good. Years ago i had a problem with getting wood shafts spined to 90# for my longbow (i still dont think you can get them), i thought of laminating a shaft like you have to get a stiff spine. Do you think making a laminated shaft like yours could make a heavy weight and spined shaft?... Roscoe

[roscoe]

Kimall
Sorry, I have just read jeffs link to an older thread, i should of read that first... roscoe

[kimall]

Your right mate but I am modifying the design further so you end up with a cross of hardwood in the centre with four corners of the hoop pine and I think this will give the stiffer heavier but thinner arrows I am after.
Cheers KIM

[perry]

G/Day Kim, a few thoughts in the spirit of sharing a few experiences

You reminded me when you mentioned the spine being almost the same around the shaft about these Hexpine shafts built by a fella in British Columbia Canada. These shafts spine out identical all the way around due to the laminating technique. They are constructed along the lines of how the old bamboo fly rods. http://www.hexshaftarrows.com/about_hexshafts.html. I hear they are a shocker to straighten without using mild heat, I did look at buying some years ago but the price scared me off.

The spine point has me of a mind that due to the differing characteristics that soft and hardwood timbers posess and being vertically laminated that this could affect the way the shaft paradoxes. Just wondering out loud mate as I have a vague memory of Steve W making these years back and experiences a few issue.

I have some laminated birch shafts, they are quite heavy and have a dull feel to them similar to Ramin when shot not lively like Scots pine , Sitka Spruce or POC for example. They are difficult to straighten and have not overly impressed me. I even tried tapering them to see if I could improve the shooting qualities and exposed imperfections in the Birch laminations, guess cutting imperfect Birch into laminations is one way to utilise unsuitable arrow timber.

regards Perry

[kimall]

It is great you take the time Perry I appreciate it.I shot the one 8 sided shaft today that came out spined about right but it seemed a bit inconsistent in flight over a few shots and did feel sort of "funny" but hard to put it into words.I have now glued up so more lamination's to make a round shaft but laminated so that it has a hardwood cross in the middle of the shaft with the pine on the four corners.It is now a quest to find the perfect wood shaft and with this design it must be the same spine all the way round.The other thing I am exploring with the "normal" shafts I am working on is not worrying about grain orientation but putting them all over the spine tester and turning them until they all read the same regardless of the pile or whatever you call it.I mark them and put this side out from the bow when the nock goes on.I have an idea that this is the most important thing to keep consistent as it is this flexing that effects the arrow flight more than anything else.I know this goes against years of advice and don't encourage others to try as it has been said that this may be dangerous with the chance of a stick through the hand. I know the risk and feel that with glue on nocks it is one I am willing to take as it is also the stiffest part of the shaft as tested so should be the strongest part.Most I am sure are saying why mess with something that works already and if you are buying matched sets of shafts then I would agree but when making arrows from floorboards I hope this experimenting may find a way of using almost all of the shafts I make with few rejects.
Part of the probe I have faced with the pine so far is that it is for "Stumpy" the longbow which needs a stiff arrow at its poundage with out being that thick they feel like a pool cue.Keep up the feedback guys it helps to see things from other angles.
Cheers KIM

[perry]

Natures Carbon may be the answer for you Kim - Laminated Cane Arrows, even laminated bamboo. Living in the garden city should be some suitable stands of arrow friendly cane / bamboo you can raid. You could use it in the round, foot it conventionally if need be.

For reasons I do not quite have a grasp on perhaps related to it being hollow and tubular bar the nodes seems to spine quite differantly to timber, more like carbon shafts. I guess you may have to leave the outside surface intact if you laminated them, a bit of a problem.

Perhaps some offcuts from bamboo floorboards may be worth looking at planing into shafts, a nice footing and you could have a durable arrow shaft - depends on the depths of glue impregnation during manufacturing?

regards Jacko

[GrahameA]

Morning Kim and Perry

Perhaps some offcuts from bamboo floorboards may be worth looking at planing into shafts, a nice footing and you could have a durable arrow shaft - depends on the depths of glue impregnation during manufacturing?

I have never laminated up an arrow shaft and thus know zilch about it. But the concept does intrigues me.

If you laminate timbers appropriately you end up with a timber that is "significantly more" homogeneous. The issue with bamboo is that it has nodes so there will always be sections that are not the same unless we were to go to extremely small pieces that were laminated together..

If I was going to make a "laminated" bamboo shaft I would make it from four (4) seperate sections bit like hexagonal bamboo fly-rod with all pieces having the grain direction being radial. The reason for the choice of 4 being that it is relatively easy to mak. To make a Hexagonal arrow I would need to cut the sections on a router or something a bit more sophisticated in the saw area.

This seems like one of those projects that could consume a lot of time.

[kimall]

Thanks guys,you are not wrong GrahameA with time consuming I am getting somewhere with the hardwood cross in the centre and pine on the corners and then rounding the shaft but still not there yet.Too heavy still but getting close.
Cheers KIM