nice job there eddie. where do you hail from. you look like sombody i know
terry
First Bow
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longbow steve
- Posts: 3116
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Re: First Bow
Hey Clinton, It is a difficult concept to grasp and I struggled with it at first but no the top limb on an equal length limbed bow must be weaker.clinton miller wrote:i haven't made a bow and don't know a great deal about bowyering but correct me if i'm wrong. (i'm sure you will)
if the center of the bow is the fulcrum around which the limbs bend and we pull the string at a point above the fulcrum, (say 3/4" higher for a shelf or knuckle + 1/2" for nocking point, which is realistic) then my common sense tells me that the top limb would have to be stiffer if you want both limbs to bend the same.
maybe i don't have any common sense
There are plenty of threads on tiller, including a large one on Ozbow a few years back.
Steve
Re: First Bow
Clinton there is 2 differant ideas on this, one side of the argument is weaker top one is weaker bottom limb.Each party has their own reasons why their way is the best and it is follly to start the discussion here again.I am not sure why but most people are not happy to just let others do it differantly they feel that everone has to do it the same.
Cheers KIM
Cheers KIM
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longbow steve
- Posts: 3116
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- Location: BLUE MOUNTAINS
Re: First Bow
Kimall, from what I can see it is yourself who continues to bring up the topic.
Your arguments for negative tiller have merit and are based on what Dean Torges has written but I believe your self or Glenn has not completly understood the message Dean has meant to get across and that is that equal length limbs when used with positive tiller places undue stress on the upper limb of a self bow. Dean has used this as an arguement for the use of a shorter lower limb to achieve correct tiller aswell as equalise the stress on both limbs not that one should use negative tiller and remain with equal length limbs.
Steve
Your arguments for negative tiller have merit and are based on what Dean Torges has written but I believe your self or Glenn has not completly understood the message Dean has meant to get across and that is that equal length limbs when used with positive tiller places undue stress on the upper limb of a self bow. Dean has used this as an arguement for the use of a shorter lower limb to achieve correct tiller aswell as equalise the stress on both limbs not that one should use negative tiller and remain with equal length limbs.
Steve
Re: First Bow
L Steve I admit I bring it up a bit mostly in jest though but I will not bring it up again.My point is even in your last post you are trying to change the way I do it why is that?I dont say my way is any more right or wrong than any others it is just my way and I am getting resuts that I am happy with and I am sure you are happy with the results you get doing it your way.For the record though I dont use Deans ideas just because he says so I just used his idea for an offset tiller tree and when tillered on this it comes out with a stiffer top limb if it came out with a stiffer lower limb then that would be fine but it has not yet.Again I know this goes in the face of many tradional thoughts on tillering and so be it but as long as the results keep coming(with pics normally) then I will continue to do it the same even if it is WRONG.
Sorry to ramble this will be the last time I mention tiller.
Cheers KIM
Sorry to ramble this will be the last time I mention tiller.
Cheers KIM
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clinton miller
- Posts: 889
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:51 pm
- Location: in the hills south of Stanthorpe, Qld.
Re: First Bow
oops, sorry guys.
The degree of satisfaction gained from the accomplishment of a goal is directly proportional to the hardships and challenges overcome in order to achieve it.
border black douglas recurve 70# & 58# HEX6-H BB2 limbs
brigalow selfbow with rawhide string
border black douglas recurve 70# & 58# HEX6-H BB2 limbs
brigalow selfbow with rawhide string
Re: First Bow
Hi Eddie,
For a first attempt you have done an excellent job.
I could not find in your post if you had designed the bow for equal or unequal length limbs?
The tiller of the bow looks quite good at full draw but it would appear from the photograph you have four fingers below [what might be] the nocking point. Was the bow hand placement relevant to the drawing hand?
Perhaps you should try shooting a few arrows and if you have sufficient room on the handle use different hand placings and a nocking position to suit and see what happens. If need be turn the bow upside down, shoot some arrows and compare the results.
Bow tiller is important but because no two bows are the same they need field testing to ascertain what amount of tiller is required [suited to] that particular bow.
Daryl.
For a first attempt you have done an excellent job.
I could not find in your post if you had designed the bow for equal or unequal length limbs?
The tiller of the bow looks quite good at full draw but it would appear from the photograph you have four fingers below [what might be] the nocking point. Was the bow hand placement relevant to the drawing hand?
Perhaps you should try shooting a few arrows and if you have sufficient room on the handle use different hand placings and a nocking position to suit and see what happens. If need be turn the bow upside down, shoot some arrows and compare the results.
Bow tiller is important but because no two bows are the same they need field testing to ascertain what amount of tiller is required [suited to] that particular bow.
Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
Re: First Bow
All bows have to be tillered according to where the bow is held and hand placement on the string. If you don't tiller a bow with these facts in mind you are just having a bet each way, it's just a guess at best. The reason Dean makes a bow with a shorter lower limb with positive tiller is because this will reconcile the static and dynamic balance points of the bow. If and only if you make a bow with equal length limbs and you place your hand on the bow 1.25 inches above centre and shoot with split fingers then you need negative tiller to help reconcile these two points on the bow as they are moved further apart with an equal length bow and hand placement as described. Change any of these positions and tiller has to be changed to deal with the stresses placed on the limbs during the shooting process...Glenn...
Re: First Bow
I think Kim’s terminology ‘crap timber’ may have been misleading.
Although the timber may not be suitable for a selfbow i.e.; grain orientation it could have all the mechanical properties required to produce a useable backed bow.
When I was building bamboo backed and bamboo backed/bamboo bellied bows I built in 5†of reflex. Once the bow was shot in the tips remained forward of the handle when unbraced.
I have had the pleasure of shooting some of Dean Torges bows and they are a joy to shoot.
Daryl.
Although the timber may not be suitable for a selfbow i.e.; grain orientation it could have all the mechanical properties required to produce a useable backed bow.
When I was building bamboo backed and bamboo backed/bamboo bellied bows I built in 5†of reflex. Once the bow was shot in the tips remained forward of the handle when unbraced.
I have had the pleasure of shooting some of Dean Torges bows and they are a joy to shoot.
Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
Re: First Bow
Yer sorry mate that should have read "Less than ideal" 
I should think a bit more before I write.
Cheers KIM
I should think a bit more before I write. Cheers KIM
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Outbackdad
- Site Admin
- Posts: 478
- Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:46 pm
- Location: Dalby
Re: First Bow
Hope to show you all this bow shoting real soon.
Keep running out of time to work on it.
A lot of good ideas to go with for the next 1.
Eddie
Keep running out of time to work on it.
A lot of good ideas to go with for the next 1.
Eddie
Re: First Bow
Very well done, its something special when you can shoot your very first bow without it breaking.
Cheers, Toby