Getting into longbow
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Getting into longbow
Hi people,
Seeing that this is my first post I'll introduce myself - I'm Dale and I shoot compound at DVA -
a few of you guys should know me.
As the title suggests, I've decided to get a longbow. I'm considering buying a Newell defiant as I've heard and read good things about them. But I'm quite impatiant and this is where the problem arises; most bows seem to take a few months to come to and while I will order one I also want one now!
This morning, while still half asleep after only a few hours lay-down I kind of found myself at the checkout of the local timber yard handing over money for a few pieces of wood in the hope of making myself a modern laminated longbow. I have read a few bow build-a-longs on this forum but that is where my bow building expertice ends.
I took the wood to work and cut it to shape on our beam saw, here it is:
The darker red wood is Ironbark, the lighter wood is Spotted gum.
On the right of the picture is wood I'll use for the riser, cut into blocks.(I can't remember what it is, I was half asleep, but it's ultra hard and heavy) Now I need to cut the wood into strips to laminate, Anyone have a band saw?
Seeing that this is my first post I'll introduce myself - I'm Dale and I shoot compound at DVA -
a few of you guys should know me.
As the title suggests, I've decided to get a longbow. I'm considering buying a Newell defiant as I've heard and read good things about them. But I'm quite impatiant and this is where the problem arises; most bows seem to take a few months to come to and while I will order one I also want one now!
This morning, while still half asleep after only a few hours lay-down I kind of found myself at the checkout of the local timber yard handing over money for a few pieces of wood in the hope of making myself a modern laminated longbow. I have read a few bow build-a-longs on this forum but that is where my bow building expertice ends.
I took the wood to work and cut it to shape on our beam saw, here it is:
The darker red wood is Ironbark, the lighter wood is Spotted gum.
On the right of the picture is wood I'll use for the riser, cut into blocks.(I can't remember what it is, I was half asleep, but it's ultra hard and heavy) Now I need to cut the wood into strips to laminate, Anyone have a band saw?
- Stickbow Hunter
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Re: Getting into longbow
Welcome to the site mate!
Well you sure have got yourself a project and a half there. Perhaps for your first bow it may have been benefical to get a kit from Binghams with the lams, glass, riser and glue etc; suitable for the draw weight you wanted. Anyway all the best with it and keep us up to date with your progress. Sorry I live too far away to help with a bandsaw.
Jeff
Well you sure have got yourself a project and a half there. Perhaps for your first bow it may have been benefical to get a kit from Binghams with the lams, glass, riser and glue etc; suitable for the draw weight you wanted. Anyway all the best with it and keep us up to date with your progress. Sorry I live too far away to help with a bandsaw.
Jeff
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Re: Getting into longbow
Welcome Dale, Good onya for trying your hand at making your own. Are you wanting to use glass or make an all wood laminated bow?
Steve
Steve
Re: Getting into longbow
I'm considering using glass but I haven't been able to find any yet.
Will it really matter? If not I'll just go all wood.
Will it really matter? If not I'll just go all wood.
Re: Getting into longbow
Walt
If you want the easy way out. Phone John Clark at Ausbow in Goolwa. Tell him what weight bow you want and he will send you all of the components for a bow of that weight.
He also stocks Glass strips.
If you want the easy way out. Phone John Clark at Ausbow in Goolwa. Tell him what weight bow you want and he will send you all of the components for a bow of that weight.
He also stocks Glass strips.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
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Re: Getting into longbow
Ausbow Industries or Bingham projects in the USA for the glass.
Go with an all wood bow with the heavy timbers you have selected provided the grain is OK. Normally a glass bow the Limb core used is light weight and the strength is supplied by the glass. Steve
Go with an all wood bow with the heavy timbers you have selected provided the grain is OK. Normally a glass bow the Limb core used is light weight and the strength is supplied by the glass. Steve
Re: Getting into longbow
Grahame, thanks for the link but I prefer not to take the easy way out.
Steve, All wood it is then.
I just hope it doesn't end up being 30lbs...or 130lbs.
Steve, All wood it is then.
I just hope it doesn't end up being 30lbs...or 130lbs.
Re: Getting into longbow
Or exploding for that matter.
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Re: Getting into longbow
Hi Dale, Next decision to make is Flatbow or longbow(ELB). Grain needs to be straight along the top and sides of the timber along its length for the back lamination of the bow.
You can cut lams with a table saw and tooth with a hacksaw for glue adhesion, Tite bond 3, urac or a suitable epoxy glue is needed. Steve
You can cut lams with a table saw and tooth with a hacksaw for glue adhesion, Tite bond 3, urac or a suitable epoxy glue is needed. Steve
Re: Getting into longbow
The grain runs the length of the timber on all the wood.
I've been in touch with a cabinet maker through work, they say they can cut the wood into 2mm strips for me. the thing is, there blade is 4mm so more wood will be lost to dust than kept as strips. I estimate I'll be left with 12 2mm strips, 6 of Iron bark and 6 of Spotted gum; should be able to make a few bows out of that.
I will also run some strips through the riser for decoration, the short bits on the left of the photo will be for that and the limbtips.
What's the difference between a longbow and a flatbow?
I've been in touch with a cabinet maker through work, they say they can cut the wood into 2mm strips for me. the thing is, there blade is 4mm so more wood will be lost to dust than kept as strips. I estimate I'll be left with 12 2mm strips, 6 of Iron bark and 6 of Spotted gum; should be able to make a few bows out of that.
I will also run some strips through the riser for decoration, the short bits on the left of the photo will be for that and the limbtips.
What's the difference between a longbow and a flatbow?
- Gringa Bows
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Re: Getting into longbow
welcome to the site Dale,good luck with the bow...................Rod
Re: Getting into longbow
welcome, im sure some one will post some pics but a flat bow has a rectangular cross section where as and english long bow has more or less a D shape as a cross section. and i have to say good on ya for going with an all timber bow, there arnt enough people doing all timber bows all woods the way to go!
Dave
Dave
Im gonna make it bend and break-Fall Out Boy
Re: Getting into longbow
Hi Dale, welcome to Ozbow.
The following may answer some of your questions.
"From Wikipedia"
A flatbow is a bow with non-recurved, flat, relatively wide limbs that are approximately rectangular in cross-section. Because the limbs are relatively wide, flatbows will usually narrow and become deeper at the handle, with a rounded, non-bending, handle for easier grip. This design differs from that of a longbow, which has rounded limbs that are circular or D shaped in cross-section, and is usually widest at the handle. A flatbow may however be just as long as a longbow. Traditional flatbows are usually wooden selfbows (bows made of one solid piece of wood), though laminated and composite flatbows have been made in ancient and modern times.
Historic flatbow use.
Flatbows were used by Native American tribes such as the Hupa, Karok, and Wampanoag, prehistoric ancient Europeans, some Inuit tribes, Finno-Ugric nations and a number of other pre-gunpowder societies for hunting and warfare because, unlike longbows, excellent flatbows can be made from a wide variety of timbers. However, they fell out of favour in Europe, because yew longbows are easier to construct by the hundreds and do not require wide staves. The trade of yew wood for English longbows was such that it depleted the stocks of yew over a huge area.[1] Good quality yew wood is still much more expensive and difficult to find than woods suitable for flatbows, and beginning bowyers are strongly recommended to start with a flatbow made from easily-available wood. Flatbows are currently used by the paleolithic Sentinelese tribes of India.
American flatbow
The American Flatbow (AFB), also known as the American longbow, was developed in the 1930s. It resulted from scientific investigation into the best cross-sectional shape for a bow limb. This research was expected to explain why the English longbow's D-section was superior to all other extant designs. Instead, it showed that the best cross-section was a simple rectangle. The AFB was developed by applying these research findings to the English longbow. The result was a more efficient and stable bow. Because of its coincidental resemblance to some native North American bows, the AFB is also known as the "semi-Indian" bow.
The AFB was popularised by Howard Hill and quickly displaced the English longbow as the preferred bow for target shooting. The modern Olympic-style recurve bow is a development of the AFB, usually made mainly of fiberglass rather than wood, with a built-up handle section and recurved limbs.
Though many people think solely of longbows when wooden bows are mentioned, the flatbow is actually a superior bow design for most types of wood because the stress is more evenly spread out than in a longbow. A bow limb is essentially a flexed beam undergoing bending, and in any flexed beam the farther from the neutral axis (line in the middle of the flexing beam which is not under tension or compression: see diagram in Bending article) the more stress there is within the material. When a limb is rounded, as in a longbow, some wood “sticks out†farther from the neutral axis, and thus is put under greater stress. In a flatbow, the flat belly and back ensures that all of the most highly strained wood is a uniform distance from the neutral axis, spreading the load over a wider limb, minimizing stress and making weaker woods far less likely to fail (break or become permanently bent and lose the springiness needed in a bow).
Because yew, the wood of choice for English longbows, is light, resilient, and has exceptional compressive strength, the rounded design can be used to produce a smooth shooting, efficient, powerful bow. This is economical of wood and of the bowyer's time. For more common, lower strength, hardwoods such as elm (a bow wood used in ancient Europe, as evidenced by bows pulled from European bogs), maple, and ash, the flatbow design must be employed to create a bow of equal power and efficiency. The flatbow design also lends itself to very dense, high strength woods such as hickory and especially osage orange (a wood favored by many Native American tribes for bow making).
Daryl.
The following may answer some of your questions.
"From Wikipedia"
A flatbow is a bow with non-recurved, flat, relatively wide limbs that are approximately rectangular in cross-section. Because the limbs are relatively wide, flatbows will usually narrow and become deeper at the handle, with a rounded, non-bending, handle for easier grip. This design differs from that of a longbow, which has rounded limbs that are circular or D shaped in cross-section, and is usually widest at the handle. A flatbow may however be just as long as a longbow. Traditional flatbows are usually wooden selfbows (bows made of one solid piece of wood), though laminated and composite flatbows have been made in ancient and modern times.
Historic flatbow use.
Flatbows were used by Native American tribes such as the Hupa, Karok, and Wampanoag, prehistoric ancient Europeans, some Inuit tribes, Finno-Ugric nations and a number of other pre-gunpowder societies for hunting and warfare because, unlike longbows, excellent flatbows can be made from a wide variety of timbers. However, they fell out of favour in Europe, because yew longbows are easier to construct by the hundreds and do not require wide staves. The trade of yew wood for English longbows was such that it depleted the stocks of yew over a huge area.[1] Good quality yew wood is still much more expensive and difficult to find than woods suitable for flatbows, and beginning bowyers are strongly recommended to start with a flatbow made from easily-available wood. Flatbows are currently used by the paleolithic Sentinelese tribes of India.
American flatbow
The American Flatbow (AFB), also known as the American longbow, was developed in the 1930s. It resulted from scientific investigation into the best cross-sectional shape for a bow limb. This research was expected to explain why the English longbow's D-section was superior to all other extant designs. Instead, it showed that the best cross-section was a simple rectangle. The AFB was developed by applying these research findings to the English longbow. The result was a more efficient and stable bow. Because of its coincidental resemblance to some native North American bows, the AFB is also known as the "semi-Indian" bow.
The AFB was popularised by Howard Hill and quickly displaced the English longbow as the preferred bow for target shooting. The modern Olympic-style recurve bow is a development of the AFB, usually made mainly of fiberglass rather than wood, with a built-up handle section and recurved limbs.
Though many people think solely of longbows when wooden bows are mentioned, the flatbow is actually a superior bow design for most types of wood because the stress is more evenly spread out than in a longbow. A bow limb is essentially a flexed beam undergoing bending, and in any flexed beam the farther from the neutral axis (line in the middle of the flexing beam which is not under tension or compression: see diagram in Bending article) the more stress there is within the material. When a limb is rounded, as in a longbow, some wood “sticks out†farther from the neutral axis, and thus is put under greater stress. In a flatbow, the flat belly and back ensures that all of the most highly strained wood is a uniform distance from the neutral axis, spreading the load over a wider limb, minimizing stress and making weaker woods far less likely to fail (break or become permanently bent and lose the springiness needed in a bow).
Because yew, the wood of choice for English longbows, is light, resilient, and has exceptional compressive strength, the rounded design can be used to produce a smooth shooting, efficient, powerful bow. This is economical of wood and of the bowyer's time. For more common, lower strength, hardwoods such as elm (a bow wood used in ancient Europe, as evidenced by bows pulled from European bogs), maple, and ash, the flatbow design must be employed to create a bow of equal power and efficiency. The flatbow design also lends itself to very dense, high strength woods such as hickory and especially osage orange (a wood favored by many Native American tribes for bow making).
Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
Re: Getting into longbow
well there you go huh hehe learn something every day, remember to put up heeps of pictures
Im gonna make it bend and break-Fall Out Boy
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Re: Getting into longbow
Hi Dale
Greybeard (Daryl) has given you some great background information and he has given me a lot of very good info re wooden bows. I failed woodwork at intermediate school, reckoned I'd be a no hoper as a bowyer but I've recently made two Elbs and two flatbows and it is really mind blowing to shoot a wood selfbow you've made yourself. I found hickory to be forgiving and have an Elb and two flatbows made of that.
Give it a go. It's a real buzz .
Simon
Greybeard (Daryl) has given you some great background information and he has given me a lot of very good info re wooden bows. I failed woodwork at intermediate school, reckoned I'd be a no hoper as a bowyer but I've recently made two Elbs and two flatbows and it is really mind blowing to shoot a wood selfbow you've made yourself. I found hickory to be forgiving and have an Elb and two flatbows made of that.
Give it a go. It's a real buzz .
Simon
Re: Getting into longbow
Thanks guys for the support. Thanks Darryl for that info.
I'm just doing this for a bit of fun, if it works I'll be over the moon however I'm really not expecting too much.
And I'll post some pics along the way for you Ichiban, but this is going to take me some time.
Cheers.
I'm just doing this for a bit of fun, if it works I'll be over the moon however I'm really not expecting too much.
Yeah BC, that's pretty much what's driving me to do this, if it doesn't work (which is likely) I'll make sure it looks good.Brumbies Country wrote:...it is really mind blowing to shoot a wood selfbow you've made yourself...
And I'll post some pics along the way for you Ichiban, but this is going to take me some time.
Cheers.
Re: Getting into longbow
Simon, I failed woodwork at high school as well, my wood work instructor wacked me over the back side with a piece of timber I was working on and told me I would never be a carpenter, these days I am a qualified Carpenter and Joiner and a registered Builder, I bet I have forgotten more about the building trade and working with timber than he ever learnt.
Dale good luck on the longbow construction, you migh suprise yourself and get a good shooting ow out of it. Everyone breaks some but that is all in the learning process...Glenn...
Dale good luck on the longbow construction, you migh suprise yourself and get a good shooting ow out of it. Everyone breaks some but that is all in the learning process...Glenn...
Last edited by Glenn on Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting into longbow
Glenn, you don't know how happy that makes me feel when I look at what you've achieved:lol: . I had this inferiority complex about my woodworking skills for a longtime. During my uni student days I put in a total of around 12 months in the building trade in uni vacations as a builders labourer and they offered to "put me on the tools" but I had visions of resulting collapsing buildings and declined. I'm sorry you didn't get down to the Gathering in Newcastle. Perry explained the circumstances but it would have been great to have met you.
Simon
Simon
Re: Getting into longbow
I would have liked to got down to the Gathering but at that stage it was just too far to go on my own. Next year when I have my life sorted out after the nightmare events of the last 4 years I will go down to the shoots in the Southern States, I am going to set myself up to do that...Glenn...
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Re: Getting into longbow
You would be a very welcome addition mate.
There's a heap of people who want to say gidday.
Kevin
There's a heap of people who want to say gidday.
Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.
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Re: Getting into longbow
Welcome Dale
Good to see your not afraid to have a go at making your own bow.
These fellows here are a great resource for info on what you need to do to get this to work. You will make a few and break a few in the process and if you are lucky you might get it first go. I hope this will be the case.
The laminations are normally tapered and you will need to make a master taper to make sure all your pieces end up the same. If you make it out of parallel trips you will need to have a greater taper in the side to get the limbs to work properly. So have a good look at the buildalongs and find one that will compliment the tools that you have currently. You can rip the trips down with a thin curf blade in your circular saw but you will end up doing less planing and sanding if you can cut them closer to the finished size on a bandsaw.
Have fun
Good to see your not afraid to have a go at making your own bow.
These fellows here are a great resource for info on what you need to do to get this to work. You will make a few and break a few in the process and if you are lucky you might get it first go. I hope this will be the case.
The laminations are normally tapered and you will need to make a master taper to make sure all your pieces end up the same. If you make it out of parallel trips you will need to have a greater taper in the side to get the limbs to work properly. So have a good look at the buildalongs and find one that will compliment the tools that you have currently. You can rip the trips down with a thin curf blade in your circular saw but you will end up doing less planing and sanding if you can cut them closer to the finished size on a bandsaw.
Have fun
Re: Getting into longbow
there are heeps of ways to build a bow, i persoanly (if im making a laminated bow) like to leave an open belly so i can tiller it rather than just grind lams, i just find it more fun, takes way longer though
Im gonna make it bend and break-Fall Out Boy
Re: Getting into longbow
hi Dale
bout time you came on board!
you'll flick that wheelie thing out the window in your endeavour to master said beastie!
wish you luck and hope to see you on the line soon!
Hue
bout time you came on board!
you'll flick that wheelie thing out the window in your endeavour to master said beastie!
wish you luck and hope to see you on the line soon!
Hue
I can only be who I am
Re: Getting into longbow
I haven't given up on the idea!!
I'm moving house so all the tools have been packed up for a while now, they'll probably also be the last to be unpacked; got to take care of the living quarters first!
I'll post up when I get back around to it.
Cheers.
I'm moving house so all the tools have been packed up for a while now, they'll probably also be the last to be unpacked; got to take care of the living quarters first!
I'll post up when I get back around to it.
Cheers.
Re: Getting into longbow
I reckon you'll have your Defiant before this bow is done!
Lately, if life were treating me any better, I'd be suspicious of it's motives!
Re: Getting into longbow
It's certainly looking that way.