Black Wattle and Gum suitable for Bows

[aloehunter]

[color=#FFBF80]Hi gents in the land of OZ

I am residing in South Africa (Dark Continent) a keen selfbow maker and new to your forum want to find out - Black Wattle any good for bowmaking- lot around here- as far as know native to your beautiful country- also a lot of gum species any information on them as well will be highly appreciated.

Happy Hunting

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[ichiban]

hello and welcome,
yep black wattle is as far as i know a good bow wood and can make some beautiful self bows makes darn fime lams aswell, as for gum there are many many many species out there australias most popular bow wood is probably spotted gum (or the ironbarks) but any wood will make a bow if made long and wide enough.

cheers,
Dave

[pdccr]

Welcome aloehunter, i dont have alot of knowledge of bow woods suitable in your area but i agree with what dave said, spotted gum is good and most hardwoods aslong as the grain is straight and the design correct. Once again i am no expert, you will likely receive more resourceful information in a few days.

[aloehunter]

Thanks very much for your response gents

There is something that I like about Black Wattle- going to cut a vew staves soon and dry them - any know how out there how to go about drying ?- with the bark on or not? - working the green wood ext.?

John

[pdccr]

Im not sure about the drying of the gum but if you wanted to get a bow quickly, duck down to your bunnings or hardware store and purchase some hardwood floor boards or decking. The best way to get a starter bow. Just while you get all the info about the gum.

[aloehunter]

thanks mate i got 2 boardbows that i am busy with but want to make a bow from a proper stave- even looking at the trees inma neighbours yard and wonder if they will make a bow



John

[pdccr]

Hehe first idea would be to maybe get some permission, then take some photos for the gurus to take a look at and then you should have a good idea what to do.

[aloehunter]

I got a good neighbour- will leave his tree alone-

[Nephew]

Mate, we have a truly internationally recognised master bowyer here in Glenn Newall. You can P.M. him as "Glenn". Believe me, you could do a lot worse than talk to this bloke, what he doesn't know about woods for selfbows, particularly Aussie woods, is probably not worth knowing. He wrote a great article in Bowhunter Australia on this very subject and is usually more than happy to advise. Good luck with your project!

[ichiban]

if you want (it has to be wide) you can make a bow from rose gum.... thats right a pink bow,thats hot

[otis.drum]

here is some info that was given to me, that i found really helpful for green staves.

like morton said, it would also be worth talking to glenn newell 'glenn' on this site.

i'm sure you could PM perry for more info also.

When you green tiller a bow you must be very carefull not to impose any string follow into the stave . Under no circumstances until you really understand the wood , actually at all should you brace the bow while its still green . I can guarantee the limbs will be stressed to the point of string follow . If the stave does not have much reflex you have just cost yourself draw weight and performance . Sorry if you know this stuff but even after making bows for around 15 years I stuff plenty with rushing into it .

By all means thin the stave until you reach a floor tiller . This is where you put pressure on the bow limb as it rests on the floor and flex it slightly , if you take it steady you can feel a point where the green wood say's to stop flexing there , usually only through a few inches of travel . Take note of how far that limb bends and if it has any stiff points or area's of the limb that bend to much mark those area's and reduce timber if its stiff or remove timber from a couple of inches each side of where it bends to much . Go real easy , the wood will stiffen as it dries but be cautious not to remove to much timber while it's gren - you don't want a light bow . Just in case I also suggest start out with the bow 4 to 6 inches longer than you want it's finished length . Length is your friend , lop an inch or 2 off each end to gain weight or off one limb if the tiller gets messed up .

A good tip when determining your selfbow's length is double your draw length plus 12 unless it is a very wide flat design - then double plus 6

When a bow is thinned to floor tiller and dryed quickly it will not warp if the stave is thinner than it is wide . Checking or drying cracks will be nearly if not completely eliminated . Ancient folks used to floor tiller their staves then place them near the ceiling near the smoke hole in their lodges and dry the bow in the warm air and smoke - some argue this tempers the wood . Heat treating belly timber after the bow is tillered is a real art - don't be tempted for your first year or two .

Last hint for now with green tiller - weigh a stave before you put it in the car or under your sheds roof in a few days weigh it again , continue this until it has not lost any weight for 2 days - it will have reached equilibrium with the humidity in your area and will be dry . Could take 3 days or a week - Acar works well but it will dry well if its left somewhere the breeze can get to it . Natives even hammered pegs into the shape of the unbraced profile of the bow they wanted into the ground and induced recurves or reflex by bending the bow around this simple form . You can do the same with a timber form you can make . Get the bowyers bibles - plenty of tips on this and more in them

Knots do not mean a stave is no good just leave more wood around it's edges if possible , definatly leave that point of the limb appreciably thicker and nothing wrong with filling it with epoxy and sawdust . I have left pithy knots alone just left them proud in the finished bow and the pith has fallen out resulting in a hole through the limb , looks cool and does not effect performance or durability .

It is possible to drill a suspect knot and put pins in to reinforce them , you can leave it or bind it with rawhide if you wish . If you still have that cracked stave - Gleen or I may be asble to look at a photo and tell you how to go about repairing it or if it's firewood . Save your failed projects regardless as you may be able to splice to broken staves together to form a good one .

A mate of mine has tried ironwood laminates without success in a bamboo backed bow - he may have had crappy wood - give it a go .

Otis excellant to read you are making bamboo arrows - natures carbon !!!

I would suggest that for your first few goes at a bamboo backed bow you make a straight laid stave or a stave with no more than 1" or 2 " or reflex - the tillering is a nightmare on deflex reflex bows for a beginner

A deflex in mid limb on a deflex reflex bow changes the stresses on the limb - the limb tips have to travel through a longer arch to arrive at the same draw length compared to a straight laid bow . Same goes with a recurve or reflexed bow . The limb tips traveling further concentrates stress on more of the mid limb , adding string tension and therefore increasing cast .

Lastly if you make a bow that stacks - I will bet the tiller is wrong . String angle [ the angle between string nock and the string ] affects how smoothly a bow draws - as it approaches 90 degree's it will begin to stack - pull it past 90 degree's its possible to pull the string off the nocks with some bow designs . Short bows have steeper string angles , longer bows shallower string angles - this is one of the reasons I mentioned my safe formula for determing selfbow length

At present I am enjoying shooting an 47# 68" Olympic style recurve and a 48# 64"deflex reflex bow with the same takedown system as the Olympic bows called the ilf system [international limb fitting] I have a recurve limb form 3/4's completed of my own design . I intend to make myself ILF limbs in the 65#to 70# range and design a suitable riser of laminated timber and lighter limbs to suit the 12 ilf risers I have . With these 2 bows I have 4 combinations buy swapping 1 set of limbs to the other riser . Once I perfect tese limbs I will be able just to make a new set of limbs to fit any ILF riser I want - infinite versatility . I will post my progress on Bowhunters group - will be as while though .

I pick up my latest little obsession , Model 1892 Rossi Lever action rifle in 357 magnum tomorrow - between this and my family commitments I wont be posting on Bowhunters group until the novelty where's off , will continue to shoot my bow at every opportunity as well .

You have been wise talking to Glenn Newell - he knows more about bow design/ archery in general than any person I know , does not matter if the bow is a selfbow , bamboo backed or fibreglass - a true craftsman .

Pm me anytime , congrats if you ploughed through this

regards Perry

hope this helps.

perry i hope you don't mind me passing this on.

[pdccr]

Thats some good advice

[ichiban]

although this is kind of off the subject and not really anything but when i made my first branch asemetrical bow to dry it i first checked its weight and put it in the freezer after 1 week it had stoped loosing moisture and after it was left for 2 days was compleatly dry. if you have acess to a frezzer large enough this may be an option, however my insticts tell me this wouldnt work on large staves, since the moisture may not be able to escape quickly enough and freeze thereby expanding resulting in many many cracks or 1 big one...

Dave

[aloehunter]

Thanks very much for info- Have the complete set of Boyers bibles - The Bent Stick ext- Will give it a go as soon as Ican.

Cheers
John

[pdccr]

Ok good on ya, make sure you post some pics john

[Glenn]

I am looking forward to see how your selfbow adventures go John with Australian timbers grown in Africa. In California they have a lot of Australian Euclayptus growing there, it is a pest species, but I don't know if it is much good as bow wood. Maybe it is the soil type thast makes it not too good, but it will be interesting to see how you go...Glenn...

[TomD]

Did anything ever come from the Black Wattle Aloe hunter? I live in Kenya and we have quite a bit here - it was imported to use for tanning leather? Are we thinking of the same species?

[muntries]

Glenn, I think the problem eucalypts in US are red gum and blue gum. I believe its origin has a lot to do with its form and if it produces side branches. So most of the forestry spotted gum or vic ash have been selected from high rainfall forests to have a very straight and less branching form to reduce milling costs and have a standard product and because it is often genetic it will grow relatively true to type but site will also have some impact too.

[Stickbow Hunter]

Just a note fellas, this is an old thread and some of those who posted haven't been on the site since so a reply may not be forthcoming.

Jeff

[muntries]

hehehe Tom resurrected this one and I didn't notice the date