First attempt....Looking good...Self Fulfilling Prophecy

[Brumbies Country]

Thought I'd done most things right. Bought the only plank of American Ash in the area to make an Elb. Went for a bit of extra length-78". Thought I'd bought into play all the considerations I've read here plus a fair bit of the words of wisdom of Paul Comstock, curbed my natural impatience over a 4 week period, tillered slowly, went to string the resulting product of my labours tonight and it happened; Crack! Sheared at an approximate 30 degree angle right in the middle. I've read so much of people's initial breakages, and combined with Paul Comstock's warnings that it commonly occurs, that the immediate thoughts were "Well it was almost bound to happen."

So it's lead me to ask a couple of questions: The plank has some cracks that go maybe 1/16' crack into the plank in a number of areas. Is this indicative of wood that is too dry. I reckon I've alot to learn about grain by the way.

The second one is that Paul Comstock reckons an Elb is a tough one to start with and suggests that a wide limb flat bow is a better starter's proposition. Opinions? Trouble is I like Elbs.

It's not all gloom and doom. Hughes is on fire. Australia is none for 91. There's another bow round the corner .

Simon

[Trad Bound]

Welcome to the club, keep trying like I am.
Just had an earth tremour whilst I was typing this reply.
Fire, rain and now a tremour what next.
Cheers TonyJ

[Gringa Bows]

Bit of a shame about the bow Simon, but you would have gained a bit of knowledge.

[Brumbies Country]

Thanks . Yes have learnt alot and the next one will benefit from the experience and maybe will hold together .

Gee Tony sounds like the earth moved. We seem like we have had almost continuous wind round here for four months, it's dry as all getout and I'm feeding sheep everyday. Historically we get the odd tremour . Sounds like you are getting the lot down there.

Cheers

Simon

[Roadie]

Hi Simon, sorry to read about your Bow cracking, the unfortunate thing is that when trees are felled, it depends on how they come down, if it's been by axe or chainsaw as the tree comes down when it hits the ground it can cause the timber to shatter interenally, just little cracks up and down the length of the tree, and as the tree is cut up into fletches by the saw milling process it can depend if the timber you got was from the outside or more into the centre of the trunk,or the heart of the tree. Next time Simon, remember to ask for joiners grade timber, I know in these times, most people wouldn't know what you want when you ask for Joiners grade. When we were making furniture or building boats, getting joiners grade ment we got good straight grain with no blemmishes in the wood. Once again sorry to hear about the bow cracking, but don't give up. Cheers Roadie.

[Brumbies Country]

Thanks Roadie

I looked at the remainder of the plank this morning and yes, in retrospect the timber quality could have been a lot better. You get caught a bit between a rock and a hard place. American ash looks to be a good timber for a first bow and there was only one plank of it available locally. Next time I'll stick out for something of joiners quality even if it means a different timber or waiting. There some elm on our property and I am going to cut a stave or two though given the time factor in that process I'll be looking for some timber in the meantime. On the up side I learnt plenty and the next one will benefit considerably from that.

Cheers

Simon

[longbow steve]

Well done Simon for having a go . You can learn as much from a broken bow as a functioning bow.
The White Ash seems fairly available so I would stick to that, if you knock an ELM down you will have to wait 12 months at least before starting again.
Get your next bit and start again. Steve

[Roadie]

Hi again Simon, another thing to look out for when purchasing timber is has it been kilned dried or has it been stacked to dry naturally. When timber is felled and it hits the ground, the damage caused to the trunk internally is knowen as Shakes, it depends on how hard it hits mother Earth as to how bad the Shakes can be. Cheers Roadie

[Brumbies Country]

Well done Simon for having a go . You can learn as much from a broken bow as a functioning bow.
The White Ash seems fairly available so I would stick to that, if you knock an ELM down you will have to wait 12 months at least before starting again.
Get your next bit and start again. Steve

Thanks Steve

You are right and I reckoned I've learnt plenty . Was thinking along the lines of knocking a bit of elm over and during the wait having a go at a few others and a good bit of ash is still a good bet. Have to say your Zebrawood bows look terrific in the laminated American longbow style. I'm going to stick with the Elb for my next efforts. Do you know if yellowwood (degame) is available in Australia?

Cheers

Simon

[Brumbies Country]

Hi again Simon, another thing to look out for when purchasing timber is has it been kilned dried or has it been stacked to dry naturally. When timber is felled and it hits the ground, the damage caused to the trunk internally is knowen as Shakes, it depends on how hard it hits mother Earth as to how bad the Shakes can be. Cheers Roadie

Thanks Roadie I guess the trick is being able to readily pick these things when you are looking at an appropriate bit of timber. Reckon I'm on a steep learning curve, but it's an interesting learning curve.

Simon

[longbow steve]

Hi Simon, I dont know if Degame is available, to be honest I have not heard of it.
Kevin, Jessie and I have entered your state field next month will you be there . Steve

[Stickbow Hunter]

All the best with the next one Simon.

Jeff

[greybeard]

Hi Simon,

Welcome to the world of selfbows.

Did the bow fail edge to edge or back to belly?

Making bows from milled boards, especially from those whose dimensions relate to floor board sizes can present a problem. Unfortunately it would appear your options weren’t the best when looking for a suitable piece of timber.

English style longbows are no more difficult to make than flat bows, selecting a suitable piece of timber for the design of the bow is the big challenge. Drying cracks resulting from kiln dried or air dried billets can always occur when you least expect them.

The better option may be to obtain larger sized timber.

The photo is the cross section of some Victorian/mountain ash? approximately one and a half by three inches.

Copy of Mountain Ash 002.jpg (38.24 KiB) Viewed 4581 times

The growth rings are not ideal, I believe they should be a little closer together and more uniform between each ring but it may point you in the right direction.

With this cut of timber you can work down to a suitable growth ring, following the crown for the back of the bow and then bring up a suitable belly.

Daryl.

[Brumbies Country]

Hi Simon, I dont know if Degame is available, to be honest I have not heard of it.
Kevin, Jessie and I have entered your state field next month will you be there . Steve

I saw on archery Forum that the ACT field Championships are on over Easter. For some reason I thought it was the weekend before. So now it coincides with the ABA Chamionships in Mildura. Re the latter I've been particularly keen to shoot the Historic bow division because I think it needs getting off the ground and is a challenge in it's own right. John Gaston from here is going to shoot it and I heard today Howard O'Connel is too. You get 52 weekends a year and the two are on the same weekend . Can't win.
Simon

[Brumbies Country]

All the best with the next one Simon.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff-gotta win soon and I learnt alot .

Simon

[Brumbies Country]

Thanks Daryl

Really appreciate the photo and it gives me a much better idea of what I should be looking for.

The bow failed back to belly and John Gaston, whose built a good number of bows, had a look at the two pieces today. Much of the grain was OK but where it failed the grain turned upward and the timber is on the dry side. John felt that the hot dry/cold dry climate round here doesn't help and he's had his share of failures (He's also had some beauties ).

Does Vic mountain ash work out OK for a bow? Going to take a fair bit of care with chosing the next bit of timber.

Thanks again.

Simon

[longbow steve]

Thats a shame Simon, but you will have an enjoyable weekend no doubt. All of Howards selfbows are crooked so you should beat him . Steve

[Brumbies Country]

Thats a shame Simon, but you will have an enjoyable weekend no doubt. All of Howards selfbows are crooked so you should beat him . Steve

Wish that were true .Reckon he could shoot the eye out of a needle with a bent twig . He's just so unshakebly consistent. Get half his score I'll be doing OK.

Simon

[ichiban]

i personaly have had good results using 1/4 sawn boards, there was a PDF floating around ages ago called the board bow bible or something like that that surgested you use 1/4 sawn boards. ah well every1 breaks bows, its all part of the fun i have heard you learn more from a broken bow than a sucsessful 1.

cheers,
Dave

[Glenn]

Simon degame is Lemonwood from Cuba, yellowwood is a different timber again and comes from around South East Queensland. I think Clarky from Ausbow Industries use to sell it. I know I bought lemonwood staves from South Australia somewhere years ago, it's a very good timber.
I will be in Sydney for a week or so this Friday for the Hall of Fame. I hope I can catch with Howard and some of the Ozbow members while I am down there. Howard makes a very nice bow. I tried to give Howard a nice straight stave or grey ironbark once and he said he wouldn't know how to get a bow out of it because were know propeller twists, bumps or knots in it. Good on ya Howard...Glenn...

[longbow steve]

I look forward to meeting you at the dinner Glenn

[Glenn]

That will be good to catch up with you Steve and talk bows, I am looking forward to it...Glenn...

[Brumbies Country]

Simon degame is Lemonwood from Cuba, yellowwood is a different timber again and comes from around South East Queensland. I think Clarky from Ausbow Industries use to sell it. I know I bought lemonwood staves from South Australia somewhere years ago, it's a very good timber.
I will be in Sydney for a week or so this Friday for the Hall of Fame. I hope I can catch with Howard and some of the Ozbow members while I am down there. Howard makes a very nice bow. I tried to give Howard a nice straight stave or grey ironbark once and he said he wouldn't know how to get a bow out of it because were know propeller twists, bumps or knots in it. Good on ya Howard...Glenn...

Thanks for the info Glenn and it's much appreciated. Will look into that.

John Gaston shot one of Howard's flatbows(osage orange) down this way on the weekend. Knots everywhere, so lots of character, but it shot pretty well in John's hands.

Simon

[Glenn]

Simon, Howard is a great bloke and a very good bowyer. I was just takling to someone last night in Sydney and he and a few others were looking at one of Howards propellor limb bows. He told me they got into Howard in a nice way about how the string when braced was running diagonally accross the bow from top to bottom but Howrad got them to stand behind him and have a look at the string at full draw and he could see that at full draw the string was running perfectly down the centre of the bow.
If you do get hold of some lemonwood I would like to know where to buy it, but in the meantime I will make some enquiries myself...Glenn...

[pdccr]

Do you have an pics simon?

[Brumbies Country]

That's a great story Glenn about that bow of Howards.

If I come across lemonwood I'll let you know.

Simon

[Brumbies Country]

Do you have an pics simon?

Hi Toby

I don't have any pics of the flatbow of Howards that I was talking about. You've raised a good point. I really need to get into the habit of taking pics of these self bows of character. That one and one of Pete Rogers I saw 6 or so weeks ago are imminently worth recording for reference.

Cheers

Simon

[stringnstik]

there was a PDF floating around ages ago called the board bow bible or something Dave

Anyone know what this was called or where it can be found?

I have some black butt im playing with and really not expecting it to work to be honest. the grain is all wrong but Its only my second attempt and I wanted some experience under my belt b4 I use a a good piece of wood. Experience meaning simply learning to use the tools and coming to terms with the jigs etc. ( I really need to find a decent way to clamp the stave while I slice away at it. Also broke some offcuts of the wood to see how it fails and its all beginning to make some sense.

I also know what you mean about finding suitable wood. I have had very little success.

But keep crackin it and sooner or later one wont and that will mean you have a bow

[pdccr]

Its a good idea to take some pics, just so the gurus on here can have a peek and see if they can give you some tips.

[greybeard]

Hi Stringnstick,

I had a similar problem when I first started making selfbows.

After several skinned knuckles I added ‘out riggers’ to my work bench.

I made two sets of blocks with a variation to the cut out in the top of the blocks that fit to the out riggers; the blocks cater for ‘D’ section bows and flat bows. A piece of leather glued into the cutout prevents damage to the stave.

As the stave is clamped away from the bench top you have ample room to work around the stave. With the use of speed clamps you can easily rotate the stave in the blocks to work on a particular section, as well as being able to move the stave left or right for working on the tips.

As the stave is not supported at the handle you get a good 'feel' as to how the stave is bending.

Daryl.

Dia. 12 Out Rigger Blocks For 'D' Section Longbow.JPG (62.88 KiB) Viewed 4278 times

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Selfbow Tip In Block.jpg (26.08 KiB) Viewed 4274 times