Ozbow

Over the recent break I made a pair of take down limbs on my one piece semi-recurve form. I have used the same style for the riser as my previous takedown recurve but shortened it from 19" down to 16". The bow is 64" NTN and weighed in at 54#@28". The bow shoots nicely and of course is my new favourite, for now I took it hunting last week and we got 2" of rain within a few hours of arriving so the game scattered. A further 3" the next morning was enough reason to bug out before we got stranded.

Very nice Rod, I like it!!

Thanks Bob.

Looks sweet

great looking bow Rod

Hi Rod,

Can you explain what shape an unbraced 'semi-recurve' limb profile takes, is it different to the profiles shown in the illustration?

Your bow form would appear to suggest that it has an unbraced deflex reflex profile. The photo of your braced bow shows no hint of recurve in the limbs.
Daryl.

Rod that is a stunning looking bow mate. I've never seen a 3 piece take down that I liked the look of that wasnt a recurve, but that is very nice to look at.

Hope Townsville is still treating you well!

Jim

Sorry team, just wrote a lengthy reply to Daryl's question then closed the window for some unknown reasons and lost it. Here is the brief version.

Daryl, the unbraced bow displays the same characteristics as that highlighted in your picture. The take down model has some reflex in the outer 1/3rd of the limb at brace height as checked with a straight edge (i.e. the straight edge has daylight underneath in the middle section), even though it is not apparent from the picture. I used "semi-recurve bow" as a description because I don't know what else to call it. Some use the term "hybrid bow" but to me that is clearly undefined (eg. hybrid of what and what?). I don't think "deflex-reflex bow" is a proper name either, but a description of limb characteristics that may vary from very mild to extreme. What do you think this type of bow should be called?

I have two D/R forms. The mild one produces a bow that passes for a longbow under ABA rules, even though a purist would call it a flat-bow as it is not an ELB. The other more extreme case does not because it has reflex at brace height and I shoot it in the "modern longbow" division at ABA shoots. Using the extreme D/R form to make a take-down version has been a learning experience, especially the shape of the final product was a surprise. The below photo shows the one piece sitting behind the take-down and arranged so the pivot points are at the same height. Perhaps the PC way to describe this type of bow is to call it a bow with deflex-reflex limb characteristics that either has or has not reflex when braced. This does not seem too appealing for the purpose of advertising a bow for sale.

Thanks for the comments fellas.

Jim, been enjoying much greener pastures since moving to Ingham over a year ago

rodlonq wrote:...........I don't think "deflex-reflex bow" is a proper name either, but a description of limb characteristics that may vary from very mild to extreme. What do you think this type of bow should be called?.........

Hi Rod,

With a reflexed limb the unbraced limb profile moves away from the archer at ‘x’ degrees and with a deflexed limb the unbraced limb profile moves toward the archer at ‘x’ degrees.

The numeric value of ‘x’ is not important as we are referring to the direction the limb profile takes from the handle / riser to the tips of the bow rather than how much the directional change is.

I believe that the terminology, deflex / reflex is an accurate description of your new bow as the bow exhibits both directions in the limb profile.

A shallow or deep profile does not affect its description [In my opinion]. Daryl.

"Deflex/Reflex Bow" it is then Daryl. Thank you for your detailed response and willingness to share knowledge.

I note Bingham's Projects use the terms "Shallow" and "Pronounced" to describe the severity of the D/R profile. This makes sense to me, however I wonder if it is apparent to the layman. In the long run what matters is if looking at the bow is pleasing, rather than it's written or verbal description.

I have a related question about the static tip recurve profile shown in the picture above. Is this term used to describe a bow that has tips that are significantly stiffer than the working limb (as in siyahs typically found on Asiatic bows))? I have seen some recurves recently (can't remember where though ) described as static tip models but there does not seem to be any significant thickness added to the limb tip regions.

Cheers, Rod

rodlonq wrote:.........."I note Bingham's Projects use the terms "Shallow" and "Pronounced" to describe the severity of the D/R profile.........In the long run what matters is if looking at the bow is pleasing, rather than it's written or verbal description........

Hi Rod, to my mind I believe that bowyers are looking for performance gains and the limb profile is the by product, pleasing to some and maybe not to others.

rodlonq wrote:........I have a related question about the static tip recurve profile shown in the picture above. Is this term used to describe a bow that has tips that are significantly stiffer than the working limb (as in siyahs typically found on Asiatic bows))? .....

I don't believe that these styles of tips were so much performance adding but rather allowed the bowyer to make a shorter bow that did not go into stack with a longer draw length; i.e. string angle to bow tip at full draw.

Note the length of the Chester Stevenson bow compared to the two arrows.

The Fred Bear bows were advertised at 5'2" [62"] and available in a draw weight range of 35# to 75#. Incidentally these bows [Bear] are of a composite construction.

Alternatively I could be totally wrong with the above theory.
Nels Grumley was a bowyer employed by Fred Bear.

Daryl.

Evening Daryl, Rod

greybeard wrote:... to my mind I believe that bowyers are looking for performance gains and the limb profile is the by product ...

As Daryl has suggested 'performance' is more than just arrow speed. e.g. Go shorter to gain speed and you may suffer from 'Finger Pinch' and decreased accuracy.

rodlonq wrote:.....Daryl, the unbraced bow displays the same characteristics as that highlighted in your picture. ........ I used "semi-recurve bow" as a description because I don't know what else to call it.......... I don't think "deflex-reflex bow" is a proper name either........... What do you think this type of bow should be called?

greybeard wrote:.........With a reflexed limb the unbraced limb profile moves away from the archer at ‘x’ degrees and with a deflexed limb the unbraced limb profile moves toward the archer at ‘x’ degrees............I believe that the terminology, deflex / reflex is an accurate description of your new bow as the bow exhibits both directions in the limb profile........

rodlonq wrote:"Deflex/Reflex Bow" it is then Daryl. Thank you for your detailed response and willingness to share knowledge........

Hi Rod, I was going through some old files and found the following. Unfortunately I do not know who authored the article.

"DEFLEX-REFLEX: A bow design where the unbraced limbs curve toward the belly of the bow then reverse direction about mid-limb, reflexing away from the shooter. Reflexing replaces the braced limb stress lost by de-flexing.

It has become a very common bow design in recent times with much hype surrounding its supposedly superior performance to other trad bow designs, but is really quite old. It became common in the 1950s and 1960s, and was quite definitely and specifically known as the semi-recurve design. It was never regarded as a longbow, and the advertising of those times made a point of distinguishing this design from the 'old-fashioned' straight-ended longbow.

Later in the 1960s, it was largely superseded by the clearly superior full recurved bows and faded from common use until recently when it has regained some popularity and novelty.

Despite some beneficial handling characteristics, shoot-testing of this design has not demonstrated any clearly provable superior performance characteristics over other traditional bow designs despite many claims to the contrary."

Notwithstanding the above I believe deflex / reflex is the better description.

Daryl.

[I will be posting an article on late 1950 / early 1960 recurve bows in the near future.]

greybeard wrote:

rodlonq wrote:.....Daryl, the unbraced bow displays the same characteristics as that highlighted in your picture. ........ I used "semi-recurve bow" as a description because I don't know what else to call it.......... I don't think "deflex-reflex bow" is a proper name either........... What do you think this type of bow should be called?

greybeard wrote:.........With a reflexed limb the unbraced limb profile moves away from the archer at ‘x’ degrees and with a deflexed limb the unbraced limb profile moves toward the archer at ‘x’ degrees............I believe that the terminology, deflex / reflex is an accurate description of your new bow as the bow exhibits both directions in the limb profile........

rodlonq wrote:"Deflex/Reflex Bow" it is then Daryl. Thank you for your detailed response and willingness to share knowledge........

Hi Rod, I was going through some old files and found the following. Unfortunately I do not know who authored the article.

"DEFLEX-REFLEX: A bow design where the unbraced limbs curve toward the belly of the bow then reverse direction about mid-limb, reflexing away from the shooter. Reflexing replaces the braced limb stress lost by de-flexing.

It has become a very common bow design in recent times with much hype surrounding its supposedly superior performance to other trad bow designs, but is really quite old. It became common in the 1950s and 1960s, and was quite definitely and specifically known as the semi-recurve design. It was never regarded as a longbow, and the advertising of those times made a point of distinguishing this design from the 'old-fashioned' straight-ended longbow.
Later in the 1960s, it was largely superseded by the clearly superior full recurved bows and faded from common use until recently when it has regained some popularity and novelty.

Despite some beneficial handling characteristics, shoot-testing of this design has not demonstrated any clearly provable superior performance characteristics over other traditional bow designs despite many claims to the contrary."

Daryl, that description is from the 'Glossary of Traditional Archery Terms' that Dennis and I compiled.

greybeard wrote:Notwithstanding the above I believe deflex / reflex is the better description.

The term deflex/reflex refers to the limb design, not what type of bow it is. Longbows as well as a number of differing recurves such as; semi-recurves, static tip recurves and full working recurves can all have a deflex/reflex limb design. The difference in the amount of deflex or reflex used determines what type of bow you have. If you call a bow a reflex bow does that tell you what type of bow it is; no it doesn't as it only tells you that reflex has been used in its limb design.

Jeff

Thank you gentlemen, the whole deal is much clearer now.

Cheers... Rod