Need Help Making Takedown Recurve Limbs

[MattB]

Hi all,
I am new to bow making and want to make my own takedown bow. I have started on the riser but need some advise on the limbs,
What materials/timber to use?, the angle of the limbs from the riser?, length of the limbs and curve of the limbs?
Any advise would be helpful, Cheers.

[Nezwin]

Welcome to the forum, Matt.

If you've not made a bow before, starting with a take-down might be a little ambitious. I would suggest something simple at first, like a Red Oak board bow.

I can't advise you on geometrics of a take-down limb, but for materials you have to select;

1. A backing material
2. A core material
3. A belly material

Ofcourse, if you steam bent some Hickory or another timber that didn't need backing, you could theoretically have a one-piece take-down limb, but I don't expect that is what you're looking for. Take-down limbs are commonly a Fibreglass Back - Veneer - Bamboo Flooring Core- Veneer - Fibreglass Belly stack glued using a suitable epoxy compound, usually Smooth-On EA40. I've also read buildalongs with people using Hickory Back - Bamboo Flooring - Ipe Belly stacks and glued up with Titebond III, of all things. Distinct from one-piece bows, take-down limbs also need to have a 'wedge' glued in at the riser-end.

Good luck! You've set yourself quite the challenge!

[bigbob]

as someone who has probably made over 100 bows, I echo the comments of Nezwin.I have only been making take downs for about a year after quite a few longbows and a few one piece recurves.There is so much going on with a take down that it would indeed be very optimistic to try one first up, not impossible but exceedingly difficult.good luck if you still choose to, and be prepared for some disappointments.

[MattB]

Hello and thank you for your reply,
When you say "take-down limbs also need to have a 'wedge' glued in at the riser-end." what do you mean?

[MattB]

Hello bigbob, if i were to make a one-piece recurve bow would English Oak be a suitable choice?

[bigbob]

Hi Matt, I mainly use either some australian woods known to be suitable or recognised exotic woods such as Osage and most but certainly not all people use bamboo as core material.I have never used English Oak , either as lamination material or riser, but have used american Oak in risers. for core laminations as i mentioned bamboo is a good choice, and although i don't usually promote any business, for the sake of simplicity you could buy pre shaped laminations locally in Australia from Ausbow Industries, or in the States from Binghams. This would save all the problems of shaping your own tapers accurately as even one thou. in a recurve can be one pound of draw weight. Re the wedge, take down limbs also have a wedge piece of approximately 9'' long added to the limb stack at the limb pads.this has to be accurately ground as well. Again Binghams would sell you a whole kit consisting of laminations, riser material . glass etc as well as the 'recipe' for your desired weight.I strongly feel this would be a prudent way to approach the whole deal. Bear in mind you would also need a 'form' to lay the bow up on during gluing, and preferably an oven to cure the bow once laid up. These all cost money and are time consuming to make so a one off bow would be a fairly costly exercise. Perhaps if you find Greybeards post on making a bamboo backed bow this may enable you to try one without a huge outlay, and if the outcome was good you would have a great bow.

[greybeard]

Hi Matt, welcome to Ozbow.

I started typing a different reply and realized that without the relevant information my reply at best could be useless.

The main points at the moment are; how well equipped is your workshop, how well do you handle hand and power tools and can you read and understand written instructions.

Being able to work to fine tolerances is a necessity.

Daryl.

[MattB]

thank you for your advice
What were the Australian timber that you use?

[bigbob]

australian timbers i have used as laminations include black wattle, Red Palm, Red box,Hairy oak, and 'stinking wattle'. These were used as belly veneers only , and the core laminations were bamboo. They have also been used in the risers as well as other aussie timbers.Google Sam Harper or 'Poor folk bows' and have a look at his post on making a bamboo backed recurve, as well as have a look at Greybeard's post on similar subject as both offer excellent advise

[Nezwin]

There was also an excellent buildalong on the US tradgang site by a user called 'Little Ben' who built a 3-piece takedown using very cheap, simple tools within his New York apartment. His limbs were Hickory-backed and glued up with Titebond III. But Little Ben has been making bows for some years and has developed some great skill...

I would also echo Greybeard's comment;

Being able to work to fine tolerances is a necessity.

As a beginner I thought 'fine tolerance' meant 1/8" - it really means 1/16", or 1/32", particularly when building takedown bows. There are two components to working like this - equipment & skills/experience.

[bigbob]

There was also an excellent buildalong on the US tradgang site by a user called 'Little Ben' who built a 3-piece takedown using very cheap, simple tools within his New York apartment. His limbs were Hickory-backed and glued up with Titebond III. But Little Ben has been making bows for some years and has developed some great skill...

I would also echo Greybeard's comment;

Being able to work to fine tolerances is a necessity.

As a beginner I thought 'fine tolerance' meant 1/8" - it really means 1/16", or 1/32", particularly when building takedown bows. There are two components to working like this - equipment & skills/experience.

not to split hairs, but for me and takedowns, tolerances are measured in thousands of a inch It really can be that critical.

[MattB]

If i were to use fibreglass for backing and bely, would they be the same?, and how thick should the laminates be?

[Nezwin]

not to split hairs, but for me and takedowns, tolerances are measured in thousands of a inch It really can be that critical.

Exactly! Building a 3pc takedown like you guys manage is a long-way-off pipe dream. Not something for someone with a passing interest in woodworking or bow making to 'have a go' at.

I found that thread where Little Ben built the 3pc - http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.p ... 010908;p=1 - impressive stuff but not for the faint hearted.

[MattB]

big bog could you suggest a possible combination of Australian timber to laminate that would suit the best. Cheers

[bigbob]

Matt, I really think you are diving in at the deep end. My advise is to read up all you can about the subject and decide exactly what you are capable of and what your expectations are. There is so much that is necessary to know in regards to satisfactorily building a take down or even a one piece that advise like suitable materials is only a tiny part of the whole issue. Any wood that is dense and close grained and suitably seasoned would suffice in a riser as the more mass [ within reason] to the riser then the more absorption of the energies expended by the release of the arrow and not completely absorbed by said arrow , will result in less hand shock, and the greater weight makes for a steadier bow in hand.

[MattB]

Hi bigbob although not making bow limbs, i have some experience with laminations making lamp using mt.ash and red gum laminate(A half circle about 400mm diameter). I also have a lot of tools and equipment at my disposial ( i also have made desks, cabinets and shelves mostly out of Mt.Ash). Also do you use australian timer for the back and belly and if so what?

[bigbob]

all my laminations have been vertical laminated bamboo flooring taper ground, only the belly lam and perhaps the rear lam, if using clear glass may be another wood such as black wattle.. Any of the woods I have mentioned before will suffice as a belly lam. In fact it is primarily the glass that does the work, and exaggerating a little one could almost use cardboard as a lam[ not really] but you get my drift.However the total sum of all these lams and the glass[ has to be a proprietary product such as Gordon's glass] will give you the desired weight. This is where only experience will give a satisfactory result as there are crucial factors involved such as taper rate , accuracy etc that can make the outcome an absolute lottery for the uninitiated.

[MattB]

Thank you for your advice.

[MattB]

I have decided to make a one piece bow as well as limbs, incase the likelihood of failing occurs(i have limbs that i could put on the riser i make anyway). I have an old english oak tree to be cut and dressed to make the one piece out of(Not sure if it is a suitable timber, if anyone has advice it would be helpfull)

[Nezwin]

I have an old english oak tree to be cut and dressed to make the one piece out of(Not sure if it is a suitable timber, if anyone has advice it would be helpfull)

Eng. Oak can make a bow (and more than passable backings, too) but you'll need to season the timber for some time - up to several years, perhaps, for a full stave - before it can be used. Or you can have the tree milled into boards and kiln dried, but by that point you may as well just buy a board off the shelf.

although not making bow limbs, i have some experience with laminations making lamp using mt.ash and red gum laminate(A half circle about 400mm diameter). I also have a lot of tools and equipment at my disposial ( i also have made desks, cabinets and shelves mostly out of Mt.Ash). Also do use australian timer for the back and belly and if so what?

I'd done some instrument building, boat building & a lot of composite work before approaching bows and thought I'd have all the knowledge & skills needed, but bow building really is a class of its own - the combination of reading the timber, understanding the dynamic loading and very fine craftmanship is unlike pretty much any other woodworking discipline. By all means try out what you're interested in, but BigBob is right about jumping in at the deep end. Don't be too disappointed if it takes you several attempts to get anything close to what you're looking for.

[MattB]

The tree has been dead for a number of years already and about a year ago i cut and dressed a bit of the timber, it was very dry and did not bow or change shape, would i still need to do anything to the boards?

[greybeard]

Matt,

If you have the tools and confidence in your workmanship jump in and have a go.

I used my early 1970’s Black Widow take down bow to obtain a limb profile.

If possible borrow a take down recurve in the style that you like and draw detailed patterns of the limb design and copy the riser to a piece of timber to make up a template. Also make a note of the limb thickness and draw weight.

Note that any changes you make from the original design such as length of riser, length of limbs and limb profile will change the draw weight.

If you are interested the following links are to four recurves that I have made.

The first and second bows were glued up using Techniglue Ca cured at ambient temperature using pressure strips held in place with clamps.

First Recurve.jpg (85.98 KiB) Viewed 6885 times

The third and fourth bows were glued up using Smooth on EA40, heat strips and an air hose for pressure.

Heat Strip Curing.JPG (67.47 KiB) Viewed 6885 times

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8371

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10142

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=11963

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=12275

Daryl.

[MattB]

Thakyou for your advice, all of your bow look very well made, i especially like the design of the second and last bow.

[bigbob]

good to re visit these bows Daryl! I particularly like the svelte little number in the first post as well as the takedown. not to say that i don't like them all but those two float my boat!