Bang goes the weasel.

How to make a Bow, a String or a Set of Arrows. Making equipment & tools for use in Traditional Archery and Bowhunting.

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yeoman
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Bang goes the weasel.

#1 Post by yeoman » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:07 pm

While I was waiting for the glue to dry on the overlays on a bow yesterday, I thought I would knock out another one.

I started with a stave of Red Oak. A pyramid bow, 42 mm wide at the center, and just under 1/2 thick. It should have been a doddle. 90 minutes after starting, I did indeed have a shooting bow. Problem was, it was only 19 lb at 28 inches, and all I'd really done was remove the saw marks from the bandsaw to tiller. Obviously, this particular piece was nowhere near as stiff as other bits of Red Oak I've used.

I thought I'd try something new. So I backed it with a bit of Elm and glued it into 2 inches of reflex, cooking it for two hours. It kept one inch of this and I left it for the rest of the afternoon and overnight to relax. I backed it to increase the thickness. I glued in reflex to increase the stiffness-per-thickness. Doing both of these things would allow me to begin again with a thicker stave that I could tiller down to a more respectable draw weight.

Things were going well. I even dusted off the spokeshave, which I can't typically use with the usual Spotted Gum and Ironbark. It was a delight to be removing curls of wood instead of dust.

I'd just progressed from 20 inches of draw and was going to measure the draw weight at 22 (This is at 20, and I had fixed the tiller before progressing, but hadn't photographed it).

Image

All of a sudden there was an enormous bang. A something hit me on the back, and there was a clatter about the workshop as fragments rained down.

Image

Image

It was the limb on the left in the above picture that broke.

Now...this is a classic tension failure. I had not expected this. If anything, I would've guessed that the tension-strong Elm would cause the sub-standard Red Oak to collapse. Yet, this catastrophic failure happened. At a guess, I'd say either the cooking yesterday dried the Elm too much (shouldn't have) or there was an unseen flaw in the backing. Which is a pain if that's the case, because the grain was straight with no visible flaws. Which makes repeat offences nigh impossible to predict/avoid.

As an aside, my right shoulder, wrist and elbow were horrendously jarred by the explosion. At first I couldn't understand why, as the draw force was only about 30 lb. But then I thought if someone wolloped me in a bony joint with a wood mallet with 30 lb of force, that'd probably feel pretty unpleasant too.

It's pretty disheartening to break a bow, especially when it should be so easy. Keep plugging on though, eh?
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yeoman
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Re: Bang goes the weasel.

#2 Post by yeoman » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:15 pm

Oh, and i meant to add: to its credit, not one iota of the Smooth On EA-40 let the two bits of wood separate. The only way the glue ruptured was to snap right through at one transverse place.

Gotta love that adhesive.
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hunterguy1991
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Re: Bang goes the weasel.

#3 Post by hunterguy1991 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:17 pm

Had the same thing happen to me with a 35lb maple backed spotty bow a while ago... haven't played with maple since then as a backing.

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Nezwin
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Re: Bang goes the weasel.

#4 Post by Nezwin » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:32 pm

yeoman wrote:It's pretty disheartening to break a bow, especially when it should be so easy. Keep plugging on though, eh?
Welcome to my world! I'd reckon I lose at least 1, maybe 2 bows for every shooter. But then again, I almost never make bows I "know" (with certainty) will work - it's always new timbers, or new designs, or marginal timbers, etc etc. You might lose a bow, but you've got to focus on what you took away - a handful of experience and some time making shavings, which is never time wasted.
hunterguy1991 wrote:haven't played with maple since then as a backing.
I've seen it used very successfully in North America. It's particularly good with Walnut (although I also applied a fibreglass cloth backing, for safety) and I'm told it's excellent with Yew. Apparently the Maple/Walnut bow is still loosing arrows after a few years usage and a very, very poor build...

Hamish
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Re: Bang goes the weasel.

#5 Post by Hamish » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:26 pm

I reckon it might have something to do with the 2 hr cooking to cure the glue up, without allowing the wood to re hydrate. What temp did you have the hot box on?
The quick turn around that fibre glass guys do, cutting out and tillering a blank once it has cooled down from the hot box is doable because the fg is doing all the tension work, not the wood.

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yeoman
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Re: Bang goes the weasel.

#6 Post by yeoman » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:35 am

It's possible that overdrying is the issue, but I somehow doubt it. Before I put it in the oven, I gave the Elm a liberal dose of wax as a resist to be able to peel the excess glue off. This, I think would have helped to seal the moisture in. It was also tightly wrapped with cling film. The oven cycles between 55 and 60 degrees, so would have been less intense than leaving the bow in a car on a warm sunny afternoon. Also, the bow finished cooking at 3 pm one day and it sat out until 10.30 the next day. On my bowmaking courses we glue the bows up at about 8 pm, cook for three hours, then start tillering by 10 am the next day. Granted those are bamboo, which is a much more effective moisture barrier.

But then, it's possible.
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Hamish
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Re: Bang goes the weasel.

#7 Post by Hamish » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:30 pm

Yeah it is hard to know what the cause is. Many years ago I had a board stave of tropical timber Pernambuco.

It was fairly close to completion, I left it in the hotbox for a couple of days, probably 40-50degrees. When I came back, I took it out, let it come back to room temp. I strung it up and the lower limb just folded over and collapsed(rather than exploded). A different scenario to yours but the only thing I could put it down to was the heat/dryness, as the stave had very straight grain and I had made another successful bow from the same board.

Sometimes you hear the American guys having trouble with bows blowing up when they take them from humid States in the south to very dry States or locations with high altitude. They account it to the bows drying out too much.

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greybeard
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Re: Bang goes the weasel.

#8 Post by greybeard » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:11 pm

You will have less problems if you forget about the hot box and let the glue cure at ambient temperatures.

All of the bamboo backed bows that I have shown on this site were done without the use of heat for curing the glue and I have not had any problems.

Granted I had used pole bamboo as a backing material but I have never had a problem with delamination.

Daryl.
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For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
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Gringa Bows
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Re: Bang goes the weasel.

#9 Post by Gringa Bows » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:06 am

Bugger

fujimo
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Re: Bang goes the weasel.

#10 Post by fujimo » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:34 pm

hey fellas,
dunno how you were setting up for the photos, but if those wooden bows are left on the tillering sticks for extended periods, they will high light any flaws in the wood, and will also contribute to extra set- seen way too many bows explode on them sticks.
a tillering tree, with a rope, a pulley and a scale are way better- just 4 or 5 seconds on those sticks- ( often times while setting up with a camera etc) can be disastrous.
just my opinion, das all- :mrgreen:
sorry that it didnt work out though- seemed like a great plan and a save :clap:

seems like half the skill in bow building, is the creative approach in trying to save bows, and correct errors!

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