i need some help?

How to make a Bow, a String or a Set of Arrows. Making equipment & tools for use in Traditional Archery and Bowhunting.

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sleepydude
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i need some help?

#1 Post by sleepydude » Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:49 pm

hi i plan on buying spotted gum or ironbark planks of wood to make a flat long bow with a bamboo backing so, what sort of grain am i looking for? how long is a good length a first bow?

is there any tools that i need?
here are the tools i already own that should help
scroll saw
files
clamps

thanks in advance :biggrin:

hunterguy1991
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Re: i need some help?

#2 Post by hunterguy1991 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:08 pm

Hey mate,

If you are backing it with bamboo you don't need to worry about grain too much but straight is often best.

Bow length depends on draw length as well as bow style... if you look at some of my English longbow posts and like that style I would go 72" between the nocks to get a 28" true (measured from the belly) draw length easily.

As far as tools go I cant go past a Shinto Saw rasp for shaping and tillering. They are just very effective.

A cheap belt sander would be a good way to prep the bamboo for it. I think my Ozito one was about $40 from bunnings.


Dave (Yeoman) builds bows in classes like what you have described so have a look at some of his recent posts for some ideas.

Hope that helps and don't hesitate to ask more questions.

Colin

sleepydude
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Re: i need some help?

#3 Post by sleepydude » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:22 am

thanks Colin
i'll grab a belt sander when i buy the wood, i also had a quick read of your english long bow for beginner thread will have a better read later on in the morning and i will check out Dave's posts as well

what is a good glue to grab to do the backing? can bamboo flooring be used instead off raw bamboo as backing, i have access to both but worried how raw bamboo will glue on being my first attempt at a bow?

hunterguy1991
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Re: i need some help?

#4 Post by hunterguy1991 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:51 am

Pole bamboo is the go for backings mate, less likely to fail on you. The trick is how you process it to get a backing lam for your bow. I can PM you and explain that though. Sander makes prepping it pretty easy and once you sand the inside flat its the same as gluing flat bits of wood together.

I use techniglue that comes from Carbatec for all my backings and I've never had one come off yet. Its $50 or so for the small kit of resin and hardener but you'll get a bunch of bows from one kit so its worth it.

You'll also need some glad wrap and strips of bike tyre tube when you are gluing it up. Big W or Kmart are the go for cheap tubes.

Colin

sleepydude
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Re: i need some help?

#5 Post by sleepydude » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:56 am

yea thanks colin a pm will help, i found the techniglue on ebay, do u just mix 2:1?

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greybeard
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Re: i need some help?

#6 Post by greybeard » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:28 pm

Welcome to Ozbow.

There is a wealth of knowledge to be gained from reading previous posts when time permits.

As Colin mentioned pole bamboo is best as the power fibres are orientated closest to the surface, as you go further into the wall of the pole there are less power fibres and more pith.
A lot of the laminated bamboo flooring has a lot of pith and little in the way of power fibres.

The following link is to a bamboo backed Brigalow flat bow/longbow. It is an easy bow to make and does not require a lot of tools.

Note the small node profile on the bamboo and the ratio of bamboo to timber.

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=13037

To make life easier I do some pre tillering on the bamboo and timber before gluing up. By doing this you can see if the components are bending evenly.

Building [gluing] reflex into the bow will help to reduce string follow.

Mix the Techniglue Ca as per the instructions.

Daryl.

It may be helpful if members knew your general location.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

sleepydude
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Re: i need some help?

#7 Post by sleepydude » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:02 pm

thanks for the advice Daryl, the bow u made by the pics does help alot with the design i gonna try to make, i will probably pre tiller the wood and the bamboo before the backing goes on like u recomened :biggrin:

my location is near bendigo
Alex

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yeoman
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Re: i need some help?

#8 Post by yeoman » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:41 pm

And again: welcome. I'll echo some of the things already said.

What grain is important? It really doesn't matter when you're backing with bamboo. Grain orientation and violation are important factors when making a selfbow, or selecting a board to use for backings. When applying a backing of bamboo, you're adding a layer of continuous, un-violated fibers to the back's surface.

Can you back a bow with bamboo flooring? No. The amount of power fibers at the surface is too small. Plus, there's no telling if the fibers are parallel with the surface of the board anyway. It makes for a good core or belly material though.

What length is good? I'd say 68-72 inches from nock to nock for a first (and even fifteenth) effort. It gives you lots of wood to spread your tillering across, and will allow you to shorten it some if the weight comes in too low.

What tools do you need? At a bare minimum? http://tharwavalleyforge.com/articles/t ... re-minimum
I suspect a scroll saw will not have the grunt or capacity to really contribute much to bowmaking.

What glue? I've used Titebond 3 with good success, but the worldwide standard for laminating bows seems to be Smooth-On EA-40. I think it's terrific and it's about the same price as Techniglue, or so it seems. Two pints (one pint each of resin and hardener) will easily do 12 backed bows.

Here's a buildalong I did many years ago:

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4295

Please, please, please show us your progress and ask for help along the way.
https://www.instagram.com/armworks_australia/

Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/

Articles to start making bows:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/index. ... /tutorials

sleepydude
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Re: i need some help?

#9 Post by sleepydude » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:36 pm

cool i can use titebond 3 i think i have some in the shed, the scroll saw has some power i'll give it a go see if it handles it

so the plan is most likely spotted gum bow with bamboo backing and 70 inch long bow and a 27 draw length, what sort of draw weight should i am for? i was thinking 30-40lb is that aiming high?

going to bunnings tomorrow and gonna see if they got any good spotted gum planks and buy any tools i need 8)

will keep u guys updated, thanks for the help :biggrin:

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yeoman
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Re: i need some help?

#10 Post by yeoman » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:38 pm

Do you currently do any archery? I couldn't point you out in a crowd of two, so don't know anything about your physique or physical capacity. But 30-40 lb is a realistic starting weight, I think.
https://www.instagram.com/armworks_australia/

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http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/

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Re: i need some help?

#11 Post by hunterguy1991 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:42 pm

Not sure if bunnings carries spotted gum decking mate, as far as I know they carry Merbau and composite fibre type decking.

Masters always has some spotty decking timber as would any decent timber or decking mob.

I'll second Yeoman on the draw weight, 40lbs tops for your first go. can always make another heavier one when you grow out of it :biggrin:

Cheap set of hanging scales or fishing scales will be a big help to see what weight you're getting as well, try Big W fishing area for a cheap set.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Colin

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Re: i need some help?

#12 Post by yeoman » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:45 pm

Fishing scales were what I used first. It was a spring balance style, with a plastic collar that rode the shank of the scale and was pushed by a pin. The effect of this was: you draw the bow to whatever draw length, let it down again, and then read the weight off the scale. very very handy. I currently have digital scales, and sorely miss that feature.
https://www.instagram.com/armworks_australia/

Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/

Articles to start making bows:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/index. ... /tutorials

sleepydude
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Re: i need some help?

#13 Post by sleepydude » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:02 pm

i do quite abit of bowhunting mostly compound but i do own a recurve its a 45lb and i can pullit back alright but i plan on making a bow more for backyard fun :biggrin: so i was thinking 30-40lb would be a good weight
i have a look tomorrow when i go there i think i saw there, i am pretty sure i seen it at bunnings or hume and iser near the hard wood decking area
i'll find out tomorrow i dont think there a masters in bendigo
i buy a set of fishing scales aswell

sleepydude
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Re: i need some help?

#14 Post by sleepydude » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:01 pm

i found a bit of spotted gum at hume and iser (home timber and hardware) and i also splitted a bit of bamboo in half, here a pic 8-)
005.JPG
005.JPG (151.95 KiB) Viewed 8378 times
got some more tools but gonna borrow a curricular saw off dad and cut it and use the scroll saw for the rough shaping off the limbs and sand it down to finish, i all that i need to get is fishing scales and some bike tubes did'nt have time to get them to day i'll buy them next weekend and start it then

the bamboo not perfectly straight does that matter much? will i be able to glue it down and straighten it as i wrap the bike tubes around it?

hunterguy1991
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Re: i need some help?

#15 Post by hunterguy1991 » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:20 pm

Just looking at it mate, i's say that bamboo is far too small in diameter for a backing... Need to have large poles that you can cut to flattish slats and then completely flatten on the inside so you can glue them on. Do you have any bigger diameter poles? Look for one of Dave (Yeoman's) recent threads called "bamboo backed flatbow" (or something close to that) as he has some pictures of some backings he's prepped for the bow in that thread. Will give you an idea of what they should look like.

Your piece of spotty looks fine to use so don't stress, there are more options. You said you are looking for a bow around 30 to 40lbs, that is easily accomplished with a linen fabric backing and a decking board. Very cheap and you can still use the glue you have to do it.

Just rough out your bow to plan.. Nominate the side you wish to use as the back and very slightly round it with a file (called "Crowning". I can send a diagram if you need one) then glue some linen fabric strip the full length of the stave on the back and let it dry. This will stop the bow exploding if it should lift a splinter.

After the back is dry you can get to tillering and make it bend like a bow...

Just one option you have anyway.

Colin

sleepydude
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Re: i need some help?

#16 Post by sleepydude » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:01 pm

thats the thickest bit i got, i might see if i can get a bigger bit next time i go to bendigo either bunnings or hume and iser
thanks Colin i keep that in mind with the linen fabric, my mum does sewing i might be able to pinch some off her 8-)
so plan on starting next weekend, so is tillering just seeing how it bends slowly and just sanding off any bits that arent bending right?

hunterguy1991
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Re: i need some help?

#17 Post by hunterguy1991 » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:13 pm

Tillering is the process of removing timber from the belly to make a smooth even arc in the limbs when the bow is drawn without any stiff or soft areas. Its by far the trickiest bit in making a bow and does take some practice to get good at.

If you look over Dave's thread you can see photos of different stages of the tillering process from initial bend all the way to full draw at full brace height.

Best thing to do when starting out is to go very slow and check often. Once the woods gone it stays gone.

Posting pictures on here as you go can be helpful as there's usually someone around to give a second opinion.

Colin

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Re: i need some help?

#18 Post by greybeard » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:14 pm

Hi Alex,

This image should give you an idea of the bamboo pole size needed for backing bows.
Pole Bamboo.JPG
Pole Bamboo.JPG (142.12 KiB) Viewed 8356 times
Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

sleepydude
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Location: Bendigo, Vic

Re: i need some help?

#19 Post by sleepydude » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:56 pm

thanks Colin for explaining tillering abit more and thanks Daryl for the pic it give me a good idea what size bamboo
i'll see if i can find anything around that size, i seen 10cm wide bamboo before at bunnings i think that might do but i'll have a look before i buy it

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Re: i need some help?

#20 Post by yeoman » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:04 pm

How wide is that board?

You'll definitely need larger diameter poles than what you've found there. 100 mm diameter would be the minimum, I'd say. Perhaps a touch smaller for a 30 lb bow. I have a 30 lb spotted gum bow next to me, and it's only about 25 mm wide at its widest.

Better than linen fabric, I think, is jute webbing. You can get a 30 m roll of it from the garden section of Bunnings for about $15 (I think). Furniture makers use it to make the seats of chairs, gardeners use it to tether trees to stakes. It ends up looking a whole lot better than you might think by looking at the webbing off the roll.

Tillering: the process of removing wood through carefully considered examination of the bend in a bow through incremental bending, in order to achieve a desired full draw profile, and intended draw weight at an intended draw length.

In the early stages you'll need to hoik wood off with the coarsest rasp you have. In the final stages, sandpaper might be the trick. I quite like using a chisel side-on, as a scraper. The steel's terrifically hard, and the edge is very sharp and has just the right geometry.

To properly tiller a bow, you must know in advance what sort of tiller profile you want; in order to have something to work towards. Then there're the simple rules of tillering:

#1- remove wood where the limb does not bend enough.
#2- leave it alone where it does bend enough.
#3- never apply more force than intended final draw weight.
#4- only fix one problem at a time.
#5- stop and check your progress often.
https://www.instagram.com/armworks_australia/

Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/

Articles to start making bows:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/index. ... /tutorials

hunterguy1991
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Re: i need some help?

#21 Post by hunterguy1991 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:34 am

I agree with Dave's post mate, especially his rules of tillering.

sleepydude
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Re: i need some help?

#22 Post by sleepydude » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:27 pm

Not sure how wide the board is i think its about 14cm, i am to hoping to go to bendigo this weekend and i might buy some of the webbing, i was gonna do the bow this weekend but gonna do some hay this weekend so might not have time but will keep u guys updated
Thanks Dave about with explaining the tillering abit more :biggrin:

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Re: i need some help?

#23 Post by Nezwin » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:04 pm

If you ever make it to Melbourne or Ballarat, you might want to head to Masters and pick up a straight-grained length of Red Oak. Even easier to make a bow from that than Spotted Gum & Bamboo - no gluing required, or prepping bamboo. Not that I've tried it much, but I've found flattening bamboo & gluing it to be far easier said than done. Good luck!

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