First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

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hunterguy1991
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First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#1 Post by hunterguy1991 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:22 pm

Afternoon all!!

Firstly I'm a little bit (read extremely) happy while writing this post but bare with me.

So about 6 months back I received some Red Ash Staves and after a little play with them about 2 weeks after getting them (which resulted in a pretty poor bow) I decided to leave them sit and come back to them in 6 months which brings me to yesterday...

Got one down, split it in 2 and got to work with the drawknife... About 3 hours later I had a reasonably straight bow stave at about 38mm wide the full length.

After work at a neighbours early this morning I got home and continued work on the bow. Marked on Dennis's sacred template ( I now consider it sacred anyway) and continued with the draw knife. Got the width tapers done and continued with the thickness taper. LUNCH time...

Rounded out the belly and cut some Side nocks (first crack at these and I'm pretty happy with how they went) and proceeded to start tillering... Looked pretty even on the long string, bit of a scrape here and there then increased the draw length a bit with some exercising in between.


Got it to a point where I thought I would get the short string on for a short brace so I quickly made one up and fitted it. More tillering and about an hour and a half later here is the result...

5 inch brace height (short but shootable)
Red Ash warbow 5 inch brace (640x480).jpg
Red Ash warbow 5 inch brace (640x480).jpg (177.65 KiB) Viewed 10751 times
110lbs @ 30 inches True Draw
Red Ash warbow 5 inch brace 105-110lbs @30 TD (640x480).jpg
Red Ash warbow 5 inch brace 105-110lbs @30 TD (640x480).jpg (179.78 KiB) Viewed 10751 times
Im Tickled pink with this one at the moment as it is my very first self bow that has not broken (yet), it is my first self Warbow, and it is my best Red Ash bow to date...

Let me know what you all think.

Colin

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Roadie
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#2 Post by Roadie » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:43 pm

Cool, Lets hope it doesn't give way when you have it a FULL Draw. The reason I say this, I know what damage can occur to one's self, personally when one does break. Looking good.
That Bow or 2/3rds of it is now my walking stick. Cheers Roadie.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#3 Post by Old Soul » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:52 pm

Hey Colin, awesome work mate, it certainly looks the part. Would be awesome to crack off some arrows into the distance, my shoulder aches just looking at it though. I hope you get plenty of good use out of it mate.

hunterguy1991
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#4 Post by hunterguy1991 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:22 pm

Thanks guys!

Yes Roadie I really hope it doesn't break too!! A from a safety stand point and B because I spent a long time making it...

Colin

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#5 Post by bigbob » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:24 pm

tiller looks great Colin, great to see you get a working bow for all your troubles, makes it all worth it doesn't it. :smile:
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#6 Post by hunterguy1991 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:33 pm

Thanks Bob!! Yes, lot of work went into this one...

Progress is on hold as of now tho as I got a small split in on nock... I remember why I don't use side nocks now!! :x

When I get some more Horn I will do horn nocks on it and then I can shoot it again.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#7 Post by mikaluger » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:32 pm

ok you have my attention.....thats lovely. might have to hit you up for some of that Red ash Col.................. how long has it been seasonong for now?

hunterguy1991
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#8 Post by hunterguy1991 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:01 pm

Finally I've pricked your interest again!! :biggrin:

Thanks mate, I'm very happy with how its come out so far... just need some bloody horn to do the tips so I can string it again!!

Be happy to send a stave or 2 down for you mate. It was cut about 6 months ago so its still fairly young at the moment. I imagine that if its left longer it will stiffen up even more as this seems pretty soft still. I have a heap stored here and at a mates place so I will look over it and find a nice piece for you to set aside.

Colin

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#9 Post by perry » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:35 pm

Colin I bought some ready made Horn Nocks from this Mob for $12. They appear well made, not sure if they would be big enough though

http://www.medievalshoppe.com.au/archery/

Not the same a making them I know but it may solve a supply issue

regards Jacko
"To my deep morticication my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' "

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hunterguy1991
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#10 Post by hunterguy1991 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:37 am

They're a decent looking nock and with a 15mm dia hole in the base would be big enough for this bow, but unfortunately I want to do side nocks on this one and they're already cut to a Victorian style...

Will definitely keep them in mind for bows in future tho.

Cheers Mate.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#11 Post by Old Soul » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:07 am

Hey Colin, if you are chasing horn head down to your local pet store, some of them are stocking cow hoof as dog chews, it's made of the same stuff and is really cheap usually about $2 a hoof. Trying to by proper horn can be problematic and the hoof comes up beautifully.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#12 Post by hunterguy1991 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:14 pm

Cheers mate!! I will have a look around as soon as I can.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#13 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:13 am

Good work once again, Colin. Your tillering is very good as usual.

I have included below one of my tiller analysis pictures for you to examine. I have rotated your picture so that the nocks are on the same plane denoted by the horizontal yellow line. The broken vertical white line indicates the geographical middle of your bow. You can see that your tiller tree is somewhat askew to the vertical and horizontal planes of the bow. At first glance, because of upper surface shading on the left limb and lower surface shading on the right limb, the right limb looks to be somewhat stiffer. However . . .

The drawing shows that the right hand limb in the picture has a moderate amount of bend compared to the left limb indicating that it should be the upper limb for a positive tillered bow.

Personally, I prefer a zero tiller in handle-less bows so that either limb can be become the upper limb simply by holding the bow so the balance point is about 1 inch below dead center. This automatically makes the lower limb shorter and stiffer and the upper limb longer and less stiff. Nevertheless . . .
Colin's-Soapwood-ELB.gif
Colin's-Soapwood-ELB.gif (323.37 KiB) Viewed 10628 times
Chords, A, B and C on the picture with their blue 'depth gauge' lines are identical in length and height for the purposes of analysis.

Your bow shows the slightest amount of central stiffening indicated by the blue 'depth gauge' line at chord C which extends into the body of the bow instead of just touching it at the belly side. This is ideal.

Where the right hand end of chord C and the depth gauge line of chord B do not intersect on the right hand limb (as they do with the depth gauge of chord A and the left end of chord C with the left hand limb) indicates the amount of additional bend in the RH limb compared to the left limb. A bow which is zero tillered would not have such a gap, but this gap is inconsequential save that it will dedicate this limb to be an upper limb.

ABOUT HORNS - we all know that the real thing is not exactly easy to come by, so I have bought a length of 1 inch x 4 feet of black Acetal rod on eBay which does look much like the real thing and obviously works well. Here are some pictures of a side-nocked 'horn' made from Acetal rod from Alan Blackham's ELB site - http://www.alanesq.com/sidenock.htm and http://www.alanesq.com/longbow.htm. The man is a dedicated animal rights vegan and hence his choice, but I have no issues with his dietary preferences if he can help with other ways to achieve the same end when the real thing is not readily available.

I bought 1 inch rod, but you could still get away with 3/4" rod if you approximate the only original Mary Rose horn and not have big hooks on them.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#14 Post by Nezwin » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:00 am

I managed to pick up a sack of horn from a local abattoir, who thought it was quite amusing that someone would have a use for these. It was a messy job processing them, though. I've also got horn from butchers previously, or local cockies sometimes. A few inquiries to a few people can turn up some amazing stuff, sometimes.

I would hazard a guess that this would be somewhat different if you're living in the cities - not a whole lot of slaughterhouses & butchers processing their own beasts. But I do know that Purcells in North Brisbane are able to source horn, so you could give them a call and pop in next time you're in the big smoke.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#15 Post by hunterguy1991 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:12 am

Thanks for your critique Dennis!! Those images are very much appreciated.

The Right hand limb in the picture is definitely the top limb on this bow as on the opposite side on the left limb there is a large Hole scar from something that would be right where the arrow pass would be and is not comfortable to hold this way so I intentionally tillered it to have the right limb as the top and made it ever so soft compared to the left.

I do need to get the brace height up to 6 inches at least on this bow tho as the few shots I did get were kicking a fair way out because of the width of the handle and the 5 inch brace. Will be a little bit of a tense time getting it there but I think if I exercise the limbs at a shorter draw a fair bit before going all the way back to 30 inches true it will hopefully not break.

In hindsight 78 ntn may have been a tad short for a warbow... :confused:

I have asked around a few local cattle properties for some horns and they have confirmed they will keep and eye out. I will also most likely make a visit to the Kilcoy Abattoirs and see if I can get some from them.

I may also looking to the Acetate rod from E bay as it seems like a good way to go to ensure a Black colour is in the final shape and also will negate having to look around the place for horns.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#16 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:22 pm

Colin,

Some of the MR bows were only 6ft long and they would almost certainly have been of warbow draw weight. I wouldn't worry about 6ft 4ins being too short. You sound like you are really beginning to sweat on this one, but I have confidence in your ability.

I have always been a bit rougher on my ELBs than most, but I never exceeded 80lbs when I was a lot younger and fitter and mostly in the 60+lbs range. They were never longer than 6ft and mostly 5ft 8 ins. But these were in the Victorian style because we did not know about the MR bows then.

When the bow was showing a good tiller at a brace height bend using the tillering string, I shortened the long string to proper brace height then increased the draw by 2 inch increments with a bit of a rest at each stage without letting it down and kept going until I reached draw length or it broke. My idea is that the wood is stressed adequately to the task at each 2 inch stage equivalent to lots of repeat bending with the to me additional benefit that at rest at each stage allowed me to be able to observe adverse changes in tiller.

That process took about half an hour. If it didn't break, I simply left it on the tiller at full draw and went away and had a cup of tea.

That process put a bit more string follow in it than I would tolerate now, but it certainly sunk the bow as much as it was ever going to be and the draw weights never changed again.

If it was not broken when I got back, I let it down, unbraced it and let it rest overnight and went on to horning and finishing it.

I still do things much the same way, albeit I watch the increase in draw weight as I draw it out using the Jim Hamm process so I don't get excessive string follow.

I watch the incremental 'per inch' progression in draw weight in the early stages until about half draw length and then calculate a projected maximum draw weight at full draw. If that projection indicates over weight, then I remove more wood.

I do the same again at about 3/4 draw and 7/8 draw to see how well draw weight and draw length are coinciding and make adjustments to bring the two together.

If those projections indicate below weight, then I hope I have enough length to dock it and bring it closer.

I notice that you cut your tillering nocks much further inboard that I ever do. Mine are almost at the extreme ends so I lose a minimum amount of length when I fit the horns which usually only brings the n-n length inboard by 1 - 1/2 inches at most.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#17 Post by hunterguy1991 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:00 am

I think that as long as I'm careful the bow will be fine. Just need to up the brace and then go slow getting it back to 30 inches. Once its been there I will hold it there for a little as you do to set in the timber to that stress. After that it will be fine to shoot (which im really looking forward to!!) but I cant do any of that until I get some horns for it.

I did order some Acetal plastic but I want to use genuine horn on this one as it may be for re-enacting purposes.

This bow is a bit strange compared to other warbows I've made... I can brace it by hand (push-pull style) and yet it still draws 110 lbs. There's no way I could do that with my other warbows.

Also shortening the brace height a little will up the draw weight a tiny bit so it may even make 115-120lbs yet but we'll see.

As for the nocks, I definitely should have cut them a half inch in rather than the full inch but it was done like it was because I thought I would need some sort of stringer groove to brace the bow since it was a bit of a beast to look at when I roughed it out and had no idea what weight it would come in at.

Handle on this one is about 38mm wide and 32-33mm deep with tips at about 17mm dia so its quite a hefty looking bow... For comparisons sake an American ash bow at the same dimensions would easily go 140lbs from what I have seen and read.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#18 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:10 am

With the 'push-pull' bracing method I use, I found that it is hugely easier when you push your left knee into the lower limb as you pull the upper limb toward you with your right hand a bit above the handle area. I actually do not push the upper loop into the nock.

My left arm is just held rigidly straight and the upper limb is pulled into it until the loop can just be fingered into the nocks. The knee into the lower limb seems to be the main thing which lessens the load.

If I was home now instead of at Jeff Challacombe's, I am pretty sure that I could find you enough buffalo horn for a pair of horns. I won't get home until March unfortunately.

Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing how this bow turns out indeed.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#19 Post by hunterguy1991 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:31 pm

That's not a problem Dennis, I have my feelers out for some horn with local cattle properties and will be asking at the abattoir at some stage also.

I did get some of the black Acetal plastic in the post today so I can finally finish of a 90lber for a mate. I have a couple of other projects on the go as well so the bow can just sit in my room for now until I have what I need to finish it. I think it may turn a few heads at the Abbey Medieval Festival this year tho. Don't see many warbows on display there from what I've seen.|

I have been working on my technique a lot lately so I am really looking forward to testing this bow for distance. I have on good authority that an American ash bow at the same weight can put a 52-54g arrow out to 200 yards on a good day so that's the benchmark I'm aiming for.

Colin

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#20 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:19 pm

Colin,

I think the Acetal rod will do a very good job as a stand-in for horn. It won't have the colour variation of horn of course, but that doesn't matter much. It may even be tougher than horn against breakage.

Those arrow weights are only in the range of 8.3 grains per LB of draw weight for a 100lb bow which is a pretty light arrow for that draw weight really. Would that weight be typical of livery arrows? What diameter are the arrows?

I wish I could shoot one of those bows. At my peak of physical fitness about 30 years ago, I once managed to draw out an 80lb bow only the once, but at 165cm tall and never exceeding 61kg and mostly 58kg weight, I just did not have the bulk to build up to it. I have never been able to put on much weight by any method including pumping iron and force feeding. It just didn't want to go on. Now I am down to just under 50kg and 40lb bows.

I have thought of buying a big bow just to have one and dream, so I might even buy a decent bit of Yew and make one just for the hell of it, but the draw weight would be heavier than I am and I may not be able to get it back on the tiller. :biggrin:

By the way, there is a feature article on the EWBS about building a 160lb bow from whitewood. In picture 33 where the bow is at full draw on the tiller, this bow has the same slight rigidity through the handle that I have always said was correct for the style. The other article on fitting side-nocked horns is pretty good also. I have done all my nock grooves, both Victorian and now Mediaeval about halfway up the horn for the same reasons mentioned in that article.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

hunterguy1991
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#21 Post by hunterguy1991 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:24 pm

Dennis,

I will use the plastic for the 90lber I have as the bloke getting it wants black horns (win-win for me).

That arrows is an EWBS Standard- min weight is 52grams. These are purely for distance shooting as they are light, thin (parallel 3/8th shaft) and have short feathers (although I tend to make my 7 inches not 6 anyway as it looks nicer)

An EWBS Livery arrow must have a min weight of 60grams and are made using a 1/2 inch dowel which is tapered/bobtailed to 3/8 at the nock throat and must be 30 and 1 half inches long from socket to nock throat.

Have a look a the Canadian Warbow Society page as they have a page up dedicated to all the different arrows they shoot which is quiet interesting to see.

I have taken to making EWBS-NZ Sheaf arrows as they are a mid weight arrow, 75grams min weight and what I feel is a really good representation of an arrow used at Crecy. I have spoken to the guys in NZ that came up with this particular arrow design and hopefully will get a chance to shoot with those lads one day.

I would love to see what kind of warbow you could turn out Dennis!! I think its something you should make purely to have on display around the house as they are a real work of art I feel.

I'm very familiar with that particular bow on the EWBS page... I have read through that build along many times and hope to replicated it (to about 140lbs though. 160lbs is a bit heavy even for me) when I get some American Ash in the near future.

Colin

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#22 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:55 pm

Colin,

Len Buckland was using American Ash for his early EWBs earlier on and I believe that he was having a few failures due to the wood not being up to the load, particularly when it got to the magic 3 figures. Although it could just as easily have been due to the quality of the wood being imported here to. I don't think they hadve warbows in mind when the buy it in. I believe that the European stuff is a bit tougher though.

Re that post on the EWBS site (Jaro Petrina) that he states in the last line of the first paragraph about his project -
being that of a 160lbs MR pattern of longbow made in ash, that is shootable, with little set and of correct oval cross section, which is made like the bows of the day.
I always thought that was the case when looking at any and all of the pictures I could find. But the orthodoxy of the 'D' section still persists when it applies only to the Victorian ELB.

In his book 'Longbow', Mike Loades mentions early on that the MR bows were the same cross-section as the Nydam bows and I think he included the Haithabu (Hedeby) bows too. I have a reasonable bit of information on the Haithabu bows here and they were definitely oval in cross-section. I don't think the English bow was quite as oval as those though. Anyway, that was one of the reasons that I started to crown the backs of my ELBs as you can see in that template I gave you, except that the originals seem to be even more cambered than my template, almost to the point of being as rounded on the back as the belly.

Loades went on to point out that the actual MR bows would never be admitted to a British Longbow Society shoot because of their shape and the 8:5 rule of width to thickness and he has a point too.

Somehow, we have all been seduced by the classic Victorian bow which is mechanically much less efficient in design than the older original warbow. How I would love to see the originals and take some measurements if they are not already available.

I still don't think they were a straight taper from handle to nock though. They all seem to have a taper which is barrelled in shape which makes far more sense to me than a straight taper. The straight taper will always be more prone to cast unlike a barrelled taper. It is almost a must for such a narrow bow in proportion to its length. That is why I put a width of 7/8ths of the handle width at the 3/4 mark from the bow's centre on my template.

About the arrows, I have some material I downloaded from the EWBS site a while ago which goes into what you are saying, but I have forgotten the stats now. But I know what you are talking about though. I will have a poke around the NZ and Canadian sites later. I keep mixing up Livery with Sheaf arrows and reversing their relative weights.

If you want anything about the Haithabu bows, I can send you a PDF I have here which I had to edit because the English was pretty bad and they authors were obviously not archers using correct terminology in reference to bow anatomy. You would think that archaeologists would use extant terms when describing bows.

Let me know how the acetal horns turn out too.

By the way, I have a genuine bamboo Yumi here and I want to make some Ya for it. A friend in Japan who teaches cultural anthropology at one of their universities has had the bow's maker authenticated for me. Do you know where I could find a fletching jig which could take feathers up to 7 inches??? I didn't know it, but the Kyudo arrows are made in pairs with left wing feathers on one arrow and right wing feathers on the other for some reason. I suppose it guarantees that one wing is not wasted. Interesting . . .
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

hunterguy1991
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#23 Post by hunterguy1991 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:24 am

I much prefer the rounded, Crowned section that you and I both use on the ELB's and EWB's. I have shot a couple of bows that are a true D section and they are most uncomfortable in the hand when shooting.

I generally use the straight taper as a good guide for a start but eventually have to take a little from the belly in the handle to get it to bend enough and a little from the tips to get them to come around properly. So I think that does result in a very slightly barrelled thickness taper in the bow.

From what I have read the American Ash tends to like a slightly wider flatter section than what you can get away with in Yew. Mick has first hand experience with this and that was his advice also so I may use a slightly smaller stack for that bow, Perhaps 40mm wide and only 32 or 33mm thick rather than 36mm to get the 80% stack I would normally use.

That's why I like the EWBS rules... they do not care about the 5:8 rule, If you can pull 75lbs at 32 inches(AMO) you're in.

I will post some photos of the completed bow when the horns are on and its sanded and sealed (could take a few days with this weather though)

Standards are the lightest arrow, 52g min, Livery and Bearing are next at 60g min, Sheafs next at 75g and lastly the quarter pounder at 113.6g min. I cant recall the min weight for the Welsh class arrow tho but I believe its around the 60gram mark also.

I fletch all of my Warbow arrows by hand as they would have been done back in the day so no fletching Jig. I instead use this little gem.

http://www.primitiveways.com/fletching_jig.html

I can fully fletch and whip an arrow faster with this than using a jig and then doing the whipping after. As long as you coat the start of the thread with a good bit of super glue there is no issue with the feathers lifting or going into your hand. You could also use a little super glue to attach the very front of the feather to stop it moving during fletching. Coat the whipping with a bit of PVA glue 2 or 3 times and they last for ages without coming off. Best part of this is you can control the amount of twist retained in the feather rather than the straight jigs most of the guys in Europe and Britain are using... I have spoken to a few on Facebook and it seems they are not that familiar with Helical fletching...

Hope that helps you out.

Dennis La Varenne
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#24 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:05 pm

That gadget on Primitiveways is very clever indeed. I will have a go at it as well.

With regard to me mentioning barrel tapering above, that was a reference to width tapering, not thickness tapering.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

hunterguy1991
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#25 Post by hunterguy1991 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:15 pm

Its a very neat little fletching tool.

Ah ok, that makes sense. From photos I have seen most big warbows tend to be very thick through the middle 3/4 and very fine in the tips, which is what your template produces. I refined the thickness taper slightly so that the handle section is 4 inches long and a straight taper to the tips from that... Seems to give a more circular bend with less work than leaving the middle quarter at full thickness but you can still adjust the handle stiffness to a full circular bend or leave it a little stiff how we like them

Also helps a lot to make the tips half the thickness of the handle from what I've found... gets them bending enough for easy tillering.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#26 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:40 pm

I have also noticed that the originals seem to be very wide AND thick for most of their length and the ends taper very quickly and that is what gives the whip endedness.

As you say, you can get the tips moving first with a heavy taper to get them bending first, then address the inboard part of each limb thickness to get them bending appropriately so there is not too much load on the outer whip-ended tip as Ascham described on pp. 109 of Toxophilus thus -
". . . when you have thus shot in him and perceived good shooting wood in him, you must have him again to a good, cunning, and trusty workman which shall cut him shorter, and pike him and dress him fitter, and make him come round compass everywhere, and whipping at the ends, but with discretion, lest him whip in sunder, or else fret sooner than he is ware of; . . "
My bold italics in the quote above.

I also have something to say about the use of the word 'compass' in relation to ELBs on another thread I am about to start which will probably arouse some conjecture. You may wish to have a read perhaps.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

hunterguy1991
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:18 am
Location: Woodford Queensland

Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#27 Post by hunterguy1991 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:16 pm

Finally got this bow finished after months of waiting on horn for the nocks...

Unfortunately leaving it sit for so long altered the tiller and one limb needed a lot off it to even it back out, so its now only 75lbs @ 30".
75lb Red Ash warbow... 78 inches ntn.jpg
75lb Red Ash warbow... 78 inches ntn.jpg (70.69 KiB) Viewed 10395 times
Tiller is a tiny bit out but ok. Unfortunately the bow developed 2 small frets in the upper limb at pin knots, but it still shoots fine.

Colin

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greybeard
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#28 Post by greybeard » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:00 pm

Colin, that is a bit of unfortunate news but at least you still have a working bow.

Was there a noticable change in the limb profile of the unbraced bow?

Applying dry heat to the offending limb and bending it around a block/peg may have corrected the tiller without sacrificing draw weight.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

hunterguy1991
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#29 Post by hunterguy1991 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:10 pm

Little unfortunate yes Daryl, but as you said, I still have a working bow. And looking at the photo its growing on me. For a while I thought the bottom limb was too soft but its pretty right if you turn your head sideways and look at the photo.

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#30 Post by yeoman » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:12 pm

Dennis, that lead on acetal is brilliant. I think I will try it.

I had a student on one of my bow courses this year who is a prosthetist, and a dab hand at it too. We were discussing the possibility of making a generic mould and casting horn nock blanks imbedded with fiberglass, but just using some acetal rod would be much easier, methinks. Pity it doesn't appear so easy to find square acetal rod in decent dimensions. That'd go a bit easier on the bandsaw.

On the shape of limbs/bows:

when I was doing quite a bit of the calculating along the lines of 'using maths in making bows', I drew up a tiller shape that I thought looked pretty good for a long warbow of very heavy draw weight. The result was a stave that was almost parallel for much of it's length (but still tapering ever so slightly) that barrel tapered abruptly in the last 12 inches or so. Its thickness tapered gently in straight lines until that same last 12 inch point. You'd think this would lend itself to a whip-ended tiller. However with such a long bow, 78" from memory, a great deal of leverage is exerted on the middle of the bow causing it to bend more. Quite interesting to see how that played out. Scaled down for length and draw weight, the design made very nice longbows.
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