First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

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hunterguy1991
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#31 Post by hunterguy1991 » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:45 am

Dave,

Your description of the bows profile is Very similar to the profile I use to make these bows...the middle quarter (1/8th either side of the centre) is full thickness, The mid limb quarters taper to 3/4 of full width and the last 1/8 to the tip tapers very rapidly... this is a design I got from Dennis and it works very well for me.

Getting the tiller to be Whipped depends on how small you are prepared to go with the tips... for a more circular bend I make the tips Half the Width of the bow square and then generally need to do a little wood removal to get them to come round properly.

For a more whipped tiller I make the tips half the Thickness of the bow square. This reduction in dimensions is enough to get them to come round much faster as the handle section becomes far stiffer in comparison.

Colin

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#32 Post by greybeard » Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:31 pm

hunterguy1991 wrote:.......... The mid limb quarters taper to 3/4 of full width and the last 1/8 to the tip tapers very rapidly......... Getting the tiller to be Whipped depends on how small you are prepared to go with the tips.......for a more circular bend I make the tips Half the Width of the bow square..........This reduction in dimensions is enough to get them to come round much faster as the handle section becomes far stiffer in comparison.
Colin,

Is this because as the archer gets further into the draw and as the limb to string angle increases the leverage advantage decreases which means that the outer section of the limbs need to be softer to obtain the desired curvature?

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

hunterguy1991
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#33 Post by hunterguy1991 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:11 pm

Daryl,

From how I see the limbs bend and using my Civil Engineering background you are on the right track. Having a softer "whipped" tiller means that the tips will bend early while the string angle is very acute and then as the archer furthers into the draw the distance from force ( string on the nock) to the support ( hand holding the bow) which decreases the leverage (shorter lever because of the bend in the limb).

However,

As the string angle increases the force component (tensile Force in the string) perpendicular to the direction of the Support force ( the force of your hand pushing against the bow) becomes larger... hard to explain, I probably need to do some diagrams to make it clearer for everyone.

I make my bows with a whipped tiller because to me they seem to feel smoother to shoot and feel nicer to draw. I also think they're less likely to fret at the location of very high stress (the handle) because it is not required to physically bend as far.

Colin

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#34 Post by greybeard » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:19 pm

Colin, thank you for the reply, one more question;
hunterguy1991 wrote:........to me they seem to feel smoother to shoot and feel nicer to draw.......
Is whip tillering a bit of a trade off, sacrifice a little performance for a bow that is comfortable in the hand?

With my laminated longbows I prefer an elliptical tiller and don"t have any issues with how the bow feels in the hand.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

hunterguy1991
Posts: 859
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:18 am
Location: Woodford Queensland

Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#35 Post by hunterguy1991 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:53 pm

Daryl,

I have heard that for a heavy arrow it is best to keep the tips somewhat stiff and use a more Circular tiller, but that is consensus from all the English guys and I like to question everything they do...

I'm yet to get a bow exactly how I want it so I cant really test the theory between different arrows, however, the current Livery Arrow ( check the English warbow society arrows page for specs) was shot to 306 yards with a yew bow that had a whipped tiller, so that proof enough for me.

An elliptical tiller is very much a whipped tiller as the handle remains a little more straight than the tips and I think they're smooth because you're throwing less mass forward, there is less bend in the handle and the action of the limb is somewhat an "un-rolling" of the limb.

Colin

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#36 Post by yeoman » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:34 pm

On a very long bow, a whipped tiller is essentially a conventional elliptical tiller with a long straight bit spliced in the middle of it.

The reason a whipped tiller is better for 'not heavy' arrows is that for big bows like these, the bows have a lot of mass. If the bow was tillered more circular, there would be more mass moving over a greater distance. On release of the string, the bow would expend a considerable amount of the stored energy just moving the limbs back to place. In a whip ended bow the moving mass is minimised.

With very heavy arrows, however, two things are important. Firstly, every gram of wood must be made to store as much energy as possible. For this, the handle needs to work a bit more. Secondly, the heavier arrow will move slightly slower. This means the massive limbs are less of a problem, in part because proportionately, the mass of the limbs and arrow are a better ratio. A very heavy arrow will reduce hand shock because it will have absorbed more of the energy that would have vibrated the hand.

Dave
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hunterguy1991
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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#37 Post by hunterguy1991 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:15 pm

I agree with that theory Dave.

Eventually I will play around with some different tillers with varying arrow weights and see which is the better performer and where the inflection point of performance lies with regards to arrow weight.

So many experiments, so little time!! (and timber :biggrin: )

Colin

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Re: First ever self bow - 110lb Red Ash warbow

#38 Post by yeoman » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:19 pm

true dat. Try having about 200 different hobbies to spread your time across.
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Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/

Articles to start making bows:
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