Hickory/Ironbark warbow

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Dennis La Varenne
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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#31 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:45 am

Colin,

This bloke does them all the time - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tri-Lam-English ... 1425542185
Make sure you keep them inside the end of the cone though so they don't break the horn away.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

hunterguy1991
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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#32 Post by hunterguy1991 » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:47 am

Dennis,

From the pictures I can only see a double cut in one nock not both... Maybe have a closer look at the series of pictures he has up.

The false nocks I cut are a quarter inch outside the real nocks so there shouldn't be any chance of splitting the horn away and I don't cut them terribly deep either, just enough to hold the stringer cord.

I have just glued the horns on and will put some pics up a bit later. Final shape and sand tomorrow morning when they're dry.

Colin

hunterguy1991
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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#33 Post by hunterguy1991 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:06 pm

G'day all,

So my fast flight turned up this morning so I grabbed the bow out ready to make a new string... that was when I noticed something a little concerning...

The bow has developed a small chrysal right at the bottom of the handle :cry: It is only the one and is pretty small, about 13mm long and doesn't look very deep.

I put the string I had back on and had a few shots and it doesn't seem to have gotten any worse so hopefully it wont!!

There are no others that have developed along the limbs so Im hoping it wont become an issue. I suspect it happened when I put the bow on my new scale and weighed it out to 32 inches and I didn't notice it when I've been shooting it.

Still, kinda sucks as the bow was almost perfect, but now its not.

I'll try to get a photo of it to show you all and you can offer any advice if needed.

Fingers crossed it doesn't blow up on me anytime soon but we'll see I guess.

Colin

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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#34 Post by hunterguy1991 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:13 pm

The extent of the damage :cry:
warbow chrysal sadface (640x480).jpg
warbow chrysal sadface (640x480).jpg (199.41 KiB) Viewed 2377 times
On much closer inspection there may be some very very tiny ones where my hand is also but they may just be in the finish no the timber.

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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#35 Post by bigbob » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:58 pm

fantastic effort Colin, hope it is not a terminal fault with the chrysal/s
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hunterguy1991
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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#36 Post by hunterguy1991 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:14 pm

Cheers Bob!!

So far I think it will be ok, I have a dozen or so shots this arvo with the new fast flight string and the fret doesn't seem to have gotten any worse.

I had some video taken of me shooting it (don't think I can post it on here unfortunately) to see how close the string angle at the tips was to 90 degrees but its not close so I'm not pushing the bow that far I don't think.

Id say the fret developed when I had it at 32 inches on the tiller and then I haven't noticed it since varnishing it and shooting the few shots I have since.

Only time will tell what happens with it tho I guess.

On another note, the Fast flight sting is awesome!! Arrow speed is noticeably higher so Im really looking forward to shooting some distance tomorrow arvo!!

Colin

Dennis La Varenne
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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#37 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:58 pm

Colin,

I have had this occur in Red Ironbark bows in my possession. I do not know why it occurs, but it certainly NOT fatal as it tends to be with Yew bows. I apply the Ascham remedy of pricking and that solves all. It does not look pretty, but it works.

Somehow, with this wood, my guess is that there are small pockets of significantly softer wood sandwiched between wood which is much harder and the harder wood compresses the softer wood and cause it to pinch as yours has done.

The remedy of 'pricking' as Ascham describes it is to use a fine needle instrument such as the point of an electrical contact tester and push in a rows of holes running parallel with the line of the pinch and on both sides of it as well as one at each end of the pinch so that the pin holes for a sort of cartouche around the pinch. Here are some pics of what I have done in the past.
Pricking on Lower-limb.jpg
Pricking on Lower-limb.jpg (68.21 KiB) Viewed 2359 times
The row of holes seems to have the effect of giving the softer wood between the hard areas some 'give' when compressed by the harder wood on either side of it so the softer stuff does not cope by pinching.

As you can see from my picture, that in the case of that particular bow, the issue is much worse than yours, but the bow is still well alive, going fine and the pinches have not worsened at all.

It is not cosmetically pretty, but it is all part of bowyering and seems to stop the problem from exacerbating altogether in my experience.

I have also 'improved' the technique by bending other bows into a degree of reflex enough to open the fret slightly and whilst held in that position, have heavily burnished down the pinched up fibres after which I have 'hardened' that area by pouring some superglue over the fret and into the pricks and left it to set. That too seems to work.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#38 Post by greybeard » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:50 am

Colin, the bow has turned out well. I believe that frets occurring in Australian timbers can be inherent in the timber and not a tillering fault.

I do firmly believe one must be more critical in bow design when using timbers such as spotted gum and ironbark.
hunterguy1991 wrote: Id say the fret developed when I had it at 32 inches on the tiller and then I haven't noticed it since varnishing it and shooting the few shots I have since.
Only time will tell what happens with it tho I guess.
Have fun and keep shooting it.
hunterguy1991 wrote:On another note, the Fast flight sting is awesome!! Arrow speed is noticeably higher
It is amazing the difference low stretch strings make particularly to how the bow feels in the hand when an arrow is loosed.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

hunterguy1991
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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#39 Post by hunterguy1991 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:06 am

Thanks Daryl!!

I think the next one I make I wont push quite as far as I did with this one... just to be on the safe side.

Will definitely continue shooting the bow as when I draw (even out as far as I can) the limbs have plenty left in terms of string to nock angle so I don't think the fret will be a problem. But I will keep a close watch on it!!

The string definitely makes a massive difference! I'm very happy with it to say the least.

Colin

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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#40 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:51 am

I believe that frets occurring in Australian timbers can be inherent in the timber and not a tillering fault.
I think so too, Colin, but as I said above, I do not think these are nearly so dangerous in Australian indigenous wood species as what our northern brethren seem to fear in theirs. Nor will the problem have anything to do with string material either. It is purely an inherent wood problem. There was nothing wrong with your tillering and this fret has occurred in an area doing much less bending than anywhere else along this bow's limbs. That fact alone mitigates against a tillering problem.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#41 Post by greybeard » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:19 pm

hunterguy1991 wrote:I think the next one I make I wont push quite as far as I did with this one... just to be on the safe side.
Colin,

Playing it safe will limit your ability to learn and to get the maximum performance from your bow materials and designs.

Overbuilding bows repays you with less than desirable performance.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

hunterguy1991
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Location: Woodford Queensland

Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#42 Post by hunterguy1991 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:42 pm

Daryl,

I mean that more in terms of draw length I push them to... this bow is one that I will probly be the only one that ever gets it to full draw (a because its made for me and my draw length and b I'm the only one I know strong enough to get it back that far) so I should never have drawn it out to 32 inches on the tiller, because I simply cant get it back that far.

Already have plans for another for myself at 140-150lbs (this one is pretty easy to shoot now that I have done it a few times :biggrin: ) so that will really test the timber's limits.

Dennis,

I got some distance shots in this arvo and the fret has not done anything so I don't think its a problem anymore.

My shots maxed out around 180 yards but I still had more elevation left yet. I need to really work on rocking back in the shot to get it up to 45 degrees for max distance. Still 180 yards is not bad for a 60 gram arrow!! I have started making some proper English Warbow Society Sheaf arrows to go with it (min weight is 72 grams) and cant wait to loose a few of them down range. Will post photos in a new thread of my medieval arrows/broom handles haha!!

Colin

Colin

Dennis La Varenne
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Re: Hickory/Ironbark warbow

#43 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:09 am

Colin,

On your bowyer's backburner, have a think about using Ipé for a belly wood sometime too. It has a density something similar to Red Ironbark and doesn't seem to fret.

I don't know how people get back to 32 inch draws. They must be very tall indeed. I have changed my drawing style recently to a mediaeval English style back to the ear and I can only manage 28 inches barely. My drawing arm won't go back any further and my bow arm is at full push forward as it is. I stand 166.5cm and I cannot see that the mediaeval English archers were all able to draw such long draws either with the natural variation in stature within a population.

Because archery was artillery, there would not be any point in having all archers drawing the same length with the same draw weight bows and arrow weights because all the arrows would fall into too small an area to be effective.

If all the bows and arrows were the same standardised draw weight and mass, then it would be necessary to have varying draw lengths in order for the archers to be able to lay down a pattern of arrow fall covering a wide area to be effective. You don't want all your projectiles falling within a small area.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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