Osage bow the third (build along)

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cmoore
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Osage bow the third (build along)

#1 Post by cmoore » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:47 pm

It's time to start another bow (a short bow ofcourse) so I've picked the oldest stave I have. It's osage, measures 48 1/4" in length & a fraction under 2" wide for its entire length, a little bit snakey with a few pin knots that I can see. It was cut on the 19/12/2012 so it should be nicely seasoned by now
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After having spent twenty minutes deep in thought staring at & examining the stave I decided to cleft it in twain figuring that I can get two bows from it
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It split like a dream! The sound it made as I was pushing my knife down the stave was majestic, like music to my ears....although, it did sound a little dry :confused: but I guess only time will tell. I think I'll go for a rawhide backing on this one. I'll keep you all updated as I progress
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#2 Post by bigbob » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:01 pm

Thanks for posting, it should be a good build along.stave looks good too.
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#3 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:33 pm

Love the look of the stave - nice growth rings. I look forward to seeing your progress Cameron. Thanks for posting.

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#4 Post by cmoore » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:14 pm

My misses brought me a draw knife for my birthday :mrgreen: jeez I love her to bits! She's the best and ever so thoughtful. So I put it to work today, having never used one before I'm quite suprised at how quickly it removes material!
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I worked out how to hold the stave securely whilst working it and this was one of the better ways to do it, a slip may end up giving me a close shave so I proceeded carefully!,
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I chased a growth ring then reduced the staves thickness and marked out/cut in the handle, it's 3" in length and the fades are 1"...this gives me a limb length of just over 21.5" which should be enough for a decent draw length, say about 20"...im going to keep as much of the width in the limbs as possible to reduce set, im not to sure if I'll put any reflex in at this point in time
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That's how she's looking at the end of today, still not floor tillered but not to far off it. I'll finalise the shape a little, back it with rawhide then floor tiller
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#5 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:33 pm

Thanks for the update. It's looking good so far. :biggrin:

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#6 Post by cmoore » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:47 pm

Here's the tiller so far, the right limb reflexed slightly after I split the stave it's also got a nice wonk in it which will make tillering alot harder, any advice on how to tiller would be much appreciated. Cheers gents
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#7 Post by cmoore » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:06 pm

After a few more hours scraping away I made a string and braced her, here is what she looks like (brace height should be a little lower in my opinion)
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#8 Post by Sabinus » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:58 pm

Hey cmoore, looking forward to seeing how you go with that beautiful piece of wood. I hesitate to offer advice from my four bows worth of experience, but something I've been inadvertently quite good at is producing bows with a bit of string follow......one of the ways I've achieved this is by straining the bow a bit before the limbs are bending evenly. Maybe get that left-hand limb bending a bit more before you pull on her too hard..... Keep going, looks fantastic

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#9 Post by cmoore » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:01 pm

Hey Sabinus, cheers for the kind words :smile: .... I evened out the limbs a bit more (I think they're pretty even but its hard to judge because of that wiggle in the right limb). Made a new string to reduce the brace height and then spotted this
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A 3" long crack has appeared on the fade of the wiggly limb(belly side), I gave it the super glue treatment and im hoping for the best, perhaps a sinew wrap would help pull it closed to :?:
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#10 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:32 pm

cmoore wrote:I gave it the super glue treatment and im hoping for the best,
That should do the job just fine mate.

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#11 Post by cmoore » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:30 pm

Heres how she's looking at a 5" brace height and @ 14" of draw, im planning to get a 20" draw out of her.....left limb has a slight hinge & its hard for me to tell whats going on with the right limb, seems to be flexing evenly :confused:
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#12 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:42 pm

Without drawing lines etc it appears to me that at the 14" draw mark the left limb needs a few scrapes near where the first line in the tin intersects it. The right limb could bend just a smidge in the area where the first three lines in the tin intersect it. That's just my suggestion so be cautious. :biggrin:

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#13 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:45 am

cmoore,

Echoing what Jeff said above, superglue will work just fine. Try to squeeze the joint together as much as you can in a vice. Also, lengthways cracks or 'checks' are far from fatal. Crossways cracks or 'frets' are the dangerous ones.

Checks are caused by radial shrinkage of the wood as it dries quicker at the surface than at the middle of the log. That is why it is recommended these days to reduce your stave to an oversized bow and dry it in that shape rather than as a log. You can remove the excess wood when it is as dry as you can get it in your local ambient temperature and humidity. The simplest way without a moisture-meter is to weigh the stave daily until it is not loosing any more weight, then give it a few more hours inside your car on a hot day with the windows down a bit to allow air crossflow or inside a bit of black painted PVC pipe open at both ends, but only if the stave has been reduced to oversized bow stage or the checks will worsen and multiply.

In the all-wood bow days, the old bowyers simply whipped over the checks and left it at that. With today's supermarket view of equipment, such a split is seen as faulty rather than a problem to be addressed. Back in those days people would be quite happy to buy a bow where checks had been whipped because it showed that the bowyer knew his craft well and could deal with potential problems before they became an actual problem.

The other thing when viewing your bow on the tiller is to unmount it and turn it the other way round. That will allow your eye to see any difference in tiller shape and make a mental comparison, especially if there is a bit of propeller in the limb. Propeller is NOT a fault. It is only a problem which will resolve itself without harm to the performance of your bow if you do your job well.

So long as your bow shoots well, is tillered well, the job is well done.
Dennis La Varénne

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#14 Post by cmoore » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:04 pm

Here she is at 18".....im estimating it's about 30#, the cracks got slightly longer even after I superglued her but dam does this thing spit an arrow fast for its low weight and short draw length. I'd think its because the bow itself weighs nothing
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#15 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:25 pm

The bow is looking great. Put some super glue in the cracks while you have it on the tiller if they open more on drawing. That will let the glue weep into the ends of the cracks better. Once you have done that quickly unstring the bow and let the cracks come back together and let the glue dry.

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#16 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:56 pm

cmoore,

I have examined your little bow and drawn some lines over your picture to illustrate some issues with your tillering which you may wish to consider before progressing further. I have rotated your picture so that the tiller is vertical.

So far, you have done very well on such a short bow. Short bows are far less forgiving than longer bows in regard to tillering, and the stresses applied to them can cause any inherent faults to worsen more quickly from my experience. Here is your picture with the lines I have drawn on it.
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There are 3 red chords drawn, each with a blue bar standing at 90 degrees to it. The blue bar is placed exactly in the middle of the red chord. The first of these is on the left limb beteen the centre of the handle and the tip nock. The distance from the belly of your bow to that chord is indicated by the length of the blue bar. This is the datum chord against which all the other bends are compared.

The 2nd chord is that on the right hand limb. You will note two things - that the blue bar extends above the belly of this limb indicating that it is significantly stiffer than its opposite at that position, and that the red chord does not align with the string nock. Both of these observations indicate that this limb is bending far more severely with the tip pulling down more than its opposite by just over one inch. There is a noticeable hinging area inboard of the blue bar to where the fade-out of your dip finishes with much shallower bending outboard of the blue bar.

The 3rd chord with its blue bar aligned with the centre of the tiller, shows that the centre section of your bow is very stiff indeed. This is also backed up by the way in which the right hand side of this chord extends out past the belly of the RH limb. Where the RH side of this chord touches the belly of your bow indicates the end of the hinge area.

Note also that the deepest point of the bend in BOTH your limbs is inside the blue bars. It should be at the position of the blue bars to make an evenly stressed limb which a more circular bend will achieve. With a perfectly circular bend, the ends of the centre chord would touch the tops of the blue bars on each of the limb chords, but as this is a rigid handled bow, this is neither possible nor practical.

Recommendations:
1. Always do the worst limb first.

2. RH limb - the dip from the handle to the limb in the area marked 'B' needs to be dished out a lot more with a long and very shallow fade-out into the limb proper. Dips are not fade-outs as many people call them. The fade-out is the last portiion of the dip down from the handle which feathers or 'fades' into the limb. Remove wood very discretely, because on such a short bow, a little will change a lot. Deepening the dished out area at 'B' will begin to move the deepest part of the bend out toward the centre of the limb at the blue bar and relieve the greater stress being applied in the very short area between the outer 'B' line and the blue bar where most of your bending is occurring. The dishing out of the dips should begin at the absolute minimum length you actually need for a handle, and dip down pretty steeply for the first inch or so from the handle. That will allow much more of the limb to bend right up to start of the handle.

3. As you treat the RH limb, keep a close eye on how the LH limb is behaving in response. It too will change shape.

4. LH limb - In the area I have marked 'A', the dip from the handle needs to be dished out more with a long and very shallow fade-out into the limb. This will bring the deepest part of the bend closer to the blue bar. The dip on this limb is about 1/3 the length of its opposite, which is why that limb bends so severely. If I am correct, the amount of dishing out on the LH limb dip will be a lot less than the RH limb, but it will still require some to move the deepest part of the bend to the blue bar.

5. The middle chord should have a deeper bend in it by a lot more. Working on the limbs will help deepen the centre of the bow, but as this bow has a rigid handle section, the amount of bend will be less. If you can remove just enough wood that the back of the handle reaches about mid-way up the blue bar, you will have what you want with limbs which are taking close to the most amount of the bending load as is reasonable and as evenly distributed as possible.

Anyway, see what you think about the above.
Dennis La Varénne

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#17 Post by cmoore » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:04 pm

Dennis,
Cheers for taking the time to analyze my bow :biggrin: ...I see what you mean about the right hand limb, ill do some careful scraping tomorrow in the area suggested and see how she goes...as for the stiff handle section, I wanted the handle to be ridgid in this one but I can see how there is far to much of a ridgid section in the middle of the bow, ill address it all in the morrow

Cheers again
Cameron
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#18 Post by bigbob » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:13 pm

going great , going to have a nice bow there.
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#19 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:58 pm

Cameron,

Even if you scrape right up to the handle as I suggested, you will still have a rigid handle; just not as rigid as now. It will still shoot very well and you will be able to get another inch or two draw length from it.

About lightweight bows, people don't seem to realise how well they shoot with appropriately proportioned arrows. They often perform out of all proportion to what one would normally consider would be the case. I have found that out since I have been shooting the old wooden bows in my collection here.

In my younger days, I was shooting bows into the 70lbs range and thought that was what had to be to get the longer shots on the ABA courses. Now I realise that I could do the same thing with bows from 35 to 45lbs with appropriate arrows. There is a law of diminishing returns as bows get heavier. At some point around the mid-60s, speed seems to reach a maximum and even light arrows don't gain much either, but very heavy arrows most definitely start coming into their own after that.

I would not be at all surprised if your little bow turns out to a bit of a pocket rocket. Keep her going.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#20 Post by mikaluger » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:13 pm

Hi Cam,
Dennis is spot on.
If your had a board behind your tiller with Grids, lined up with your bow, I think you may find it easier to see these small discrepancies.
Once I designated a place on my garage wall and Drew grids all over it, my tillering became alot better...................Heaps better in fact.!
Other than that, looking forward to seeing the bow on Saturday!!!!!

Mick.

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#21 Post by cmoore » Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:09 pm

Cheers for the input gentleman, guess I'll start drawing up a grid :mrgreen: .... started scraping today and braced the bow to check progress, did a close inspection of both limbs and noticed this fret on the back of the bow :cry: it's on the left limb and just about smack bang in the center of the limb. Could this spell the end?
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#22 Post by greybeard » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:16 am

Cameron, I have not seen that happen to the back of a bow before, if it becomes a problem sinew backing may be a solution.

Keep up the good work.

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#23 Post by cmoore » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:11 pm

So this lil bow has held up well :biggrin: ... despite that odd "fret" on the back I've still managed to draw her back to 19" with no ticks, cracks, creaks or snaps! I'm estimating she's about 30 odd pounds. Very happy with how she shoots so I decided to decorate her and give her some tip overlays using the wenge that mick gave me (cheers mate)....very untraditional carbon arrow used in pic as I lost my last short trad arrow the other day :oops:
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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#24 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:33 pm

Love the bows character mate!!!

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Re: Osage bow the third (build along)

#25 Post by mikaluger » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:36 pm

Nice bow Cam!!! I love the painting on the back, good stuff!

Gonna be doing some splicing in the next few weeks if your interested!!!!!! :razz: :surprised: :biggrin:

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