Tooling Advice

How to make a Bow, a String or a Set of Arrows. Making equipment & tools for use in Traditional Archery and Bowhunting.

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Nezwin
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Tooling Advice

#1 Post by Nezwin » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:50 pm

Thanks everyone for their input on my previous thread - I've gone away and done a bit of research and come up with a riser template based on arcs of set radii. Before I get back into bowmaking with my rather deficient tooling, I've decided to wait a little and sink a few thousand dollars into a proper set of tools that will allow me to do a job worth doing without wasting good materials. As tremendous bowmakers yourselves, I'd really appreciate your input into this.

I'm not all that familiar with where to source machinery in Australia but a little looking around would make it seem that Carba-Tec (www.carbatec.com.au) and Machinery House (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/) are the two big options for doing things seriously (as opposed to Bunnings...). These two companies also have outlets in Brisbane and/or Sydney, should I end up there in the next month or so. If anyone can suggest a better option, I'm all ears. For the purpose of comparison, I'll be taking examples from Machinery House as they list more information on their products and would appear to be marginally more affordable.

To start with I've figured a decent Bandsaw has got to be top of the list. I've selected a Scheppach Basato 4 (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W856) - it has a 15" throat diameter and at $160 more than the Hafco Woodmaster BP-355 with a 14" throat diameter, it seems a worthwhile investment for that little bit extra. Overall the Scheppach seemed a little more heavy duty than the Hafco but I'm open to correction.

Although the Bandsaw can be used for ripping timber, I've seen a few threads where people have outlined using Tablesaws for this also. Since I plan to invest for a long term woodworking shop that can be used for making things other than just bows, I figured an investment at this point would be worthwhile. I selected the Scheppach HS120 (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W443) - it's a step up from the Hafco equivalent within my price range (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W446) which has a much less powerful motor, which I figured would give a less smooth cut.

Rather than improvising thickness sanding jigs with beltsanders, I've decided to take the plunge and just buy a proper drum sander to do this properly. It'll also be useful for guitar making, so it's a broader investment also. Machinery House didn't have a huge selection here so within my price range my only option is the Hafco DS-1632 (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L110) - with a 400mm single-pass width it's more than capable to handling a 2" lam but only goes down to 3.2mm/1/8". It's not a big deal really, anything I need thinner I can raise with a spacing block, but I've never used a drum sander like this before so I'm fumbling around in the dark as to what I need to be on the lookout for when selecting a good drum sander. The "Quality Taiwanese" comment at the bottom of the features list has me a bit worried, if I'm honest...

For a Beltsander I've chosen to get something decent that will stand the test of time. I've always used normal, cheap baltsanders previously but seeing examples of edgesanders being used, I can see how the table with the belt at 90 degrees would be enormously useful. I've selected the Scheppach Slik 7.0b - Oscillating Belt Sander (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L904) as it has considerable more power than the more affordable Hafco L80 (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L112) and, as an oscillating sander, I've read that it tends to be a more consistent tool. My only concern with the Scheppach is that it's a little overkill where the Hafco might do just fine.

To compliment the edgesander/linisher (never heard that name before), I've selected a Hafco L69-A belt/disc sander combo (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L107). It's pretty affordable and since my primary sander would probably end up the edgesander, it wouldn't see heavy use for bowmaking (I think). I found the disc on my old belt/disc sander combo real useful for certain things too, so it would pay to have that.

To round off the woodworking side of the workshop, an investment in a dustcollector would probably be a good idea. I've selected the Hafco DC-3 (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W394) - affordable, fair size capacity, it seems okay.

I plan to also get a decent workbench, vice and a few other bits and pieces for non-bowmaking work (bench grinder, welder, etc) but for the bow making, all the heavy machinery is listed above. My background is primarily in composites & a bit of metal fabrication/smithing (inc. Civil & Mechanical Engineering, but that is primarily management & theory so not entirely applicable to this situation), so I've used woodworking tools to make plugs & moulds, but not to the precision required for top-end bowmaking yet. All the bows I have successfully made have either been extremely simple, such as stave/board bows or simple laminates, so the step up into this level of woodworking is all pretty new. But I'll have the cash in a few months and I've carried the passion through a few years of improvisation with poor tools, so now that I'm (almost) settled for a while I'm hoping to invest in a decent workshop.

If you good fellas can find the time to take a look at these ideas and perhaps suggest some better it would be a great help. And thanks for taking the time to read all this :smile:

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bigbob
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Re: Tooling Advice

#2 Post by bigbob » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:00 pm

All your choices would seem to be [good equipment for woodworking in general, and should serve you well. The only addition I might suggest would be the scheppach spindle for couple hundred dollars, it is invaluable for shaping riser fades etc.
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greybeard
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Re: Tooling Advice

#3 Post by greybeard » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:38 am

If you are equipping the workshop for the long term I would suggest buying the best tools that you can afford.

One comment that I would make is because you are buying a large belt sander a dedicated disc sander may be a better option in the long term.

Check out the country of manufacture of the combination sander, I had a combination disc / belt sander [similar to the size you are contemplating] out of China and it was a heap of junk.

The belt tensioning and tracking mechanism was poorly designed and constantly needed re adjustment and the whole unit vibrated excessively.

If you go ahead with the combination setup get the supplier to run it in the show room for you and process some timber.

Daryl.
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For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
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“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

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Nezwin
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Re: Tooling Advice

#4 Post by Nezwin » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:00 pm

Thanks for the feedback, guys. Much appreciated.
bigbob wrote:The only addition I might suggest would be the scheppach spindle for couple hundred dollars, it is invaluable for shaping riser fades etc.
greybeard wrote:One comment that I would make is because you are buying a large belt sander a dedicated disc sander may be a better option in the long term.
I've seen some comments where people rave about the spindle sanders and I can see their application & how useful they would be. They're pretty affordable so I think getting one of these could be a good alternative to the belt/disc combo - in consideration, I'm not sure I could entirely justify the disc sander as a separate unit, I'm just not sure there's the complete need for it. If anyone else has a disc sander that they use religiously, I'd be interested to hear an argument for getting one.
greybeard wrote:If you are equipping the workshop for the long term I would suggest buying the best tools that you can afford.
Absolutely! But I think if I spent much more than $5K the missus would have me out and getting a second job... :biggrin:
greybeard wrote:Check out the country of manufacture of the combination sander, I had a combination disc / belt sander [similar to the size you are contemplating] out of China and it was a heap of junk.

The belt tensioning and tracking mechanism was poorly designed and constantly needed re adjustment and the whole unit vibrated excessively.

If you go ahead with the combination setup get the supplier to run it in the show room for you and process some timber.
I had a cheap combination sander from Super Cheap Auto and the drive belt from the motor was a simple, cheap v-belt that was too loose even at maximum adjustment to transfer the torque to the sanding belts. Completely useless and a complete waste of my time.

I'm a little wary of the Taiwanese origin of some of the Hafco stuff, especially the drum sander - this in particular I want to be a decent piece of kit. I would probably consider sourcing this item from elsewhere for this reason, maybe other items also. Th Jet & Carbatec items would seem to be pretty good. If anyone on this board has a particular thickness sander they can recommend I would be interest to hear of their experience with it.

I've seen that some of the more top end items, such as the edge & spindle sanders, would appear to be oscillating while the lower end versions of these aren't. What are the advantages of oscillating drive? I'd read that oscillating sanders are more consistent but is this truly the case?

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bigbob
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Re: Tooling Advice

#5 Post by bigbob » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:06 am

i have a carbotech 300mm disc sander which I use a great deal and have found it perfectly adequate, and only cost a bit over $200, and the scheppach spindle sander was around the same money. Bear in mind both of these machines should be connected to dust extraction, the spindle sander particularly.The spindle sander should not be subject to heavy loading ie forced sanding but with due care is an utterly invaluable item as is the disc sander.
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