Ozbow

This is my take on Renaissance style D section english longbow.
Hickory backed Spliced Pacific Yew with a bamboo core. 69" NtN, 50lb @ 28". Sambar nocks and arrow rest.

Mick,

That is indeed an interesting 'interpretation' of a Renaissance D-section English Longbow. I have never seen its like before in any of the material I have on the subject.

Would it not perhaps have been safer to say it was a bow with long D-section limbs and a non-working riser rather than that it was related to the English Longbow? There are a lot of serious and knowledgeable Longbowmen out there who might baulk at your interpretation and beg to differ.

I am also curious about your use of the 3 different materials and any possible benefits you may have adjudged functional.

It appears to be well-constructed however.

Regards,

Morning Mika

mikaluger wrote:This is my take on Renaissance style D section english longbow. ...

It looks different. The question I have where did the inspiration for the design come from, your design or does it have a historical base?

Meanwhile is it nice to shoot?

Hi Fellas,

I have a book somewhere, with a plate depicting an English archer from this period using a bow with slightly curved limbs (more at the tips I think) and a rigid handle. This is what I based this bow on. Just a picture. From memory as I cant find the affending mentioned picture....
Im not a historian or renactor, just a carpenter with an interest in making bows and trying different things that come to mind.

It was going to be an ELB, but as the handle is spliced, I could not tiller the bow trough the handle. Hence the rigid riser. I wanted to have a D section bow as I have never made a D section bow from Yew before, but I wanted some speed so I decided to add some reflex 8 inches from the tips.

In hindsight you are correct, it is NOT and english long bow. I should know, my parents were english and I have made a number of ELB's and warbows.
It is an Australians, beer induced, retrospective thought based, materials I had at hand, impulse built, longbow thingy!!!!!..........but that description wont fit in the title box. :)I apologise for the bum steer, and if I have offended anyone.

Dennis, I simply added the bamboo core in to thicken the limbs at the tips. This bow was made from offcuts of yew staves. I cant let this stuff go to waste. That wont sit with me at all.

Grahame, the above longbow thingy is a cracker to shoot. It picks up the weight very early and is glossy smooth. The yew is a factor here I think, that and the length. Arrow speed is fantastic.


Mick.

It looks like you have done some nice crafting with this bow Mik. Unusual to see a D-section recurve.

Jeff

Hi Mika

mikaluger wrote:.... I have a book somewhere, with a plate depicting an English archer from this period using a bow with slightly curved limbs (more at the tips I think) and a rigid handle. This is what I based this bow on. Just a picture. From memory as I cant find the affending mentioned picture....

Ah Ha! You could try page 175, Hugh Soar's - "Secrets of the War Bow". comments on page 39

mikaluger wrote:... In hindsight you are correct, it is NOT and english long bow. I should know, my parents were english and I have made a number of ELB's and warbows. ....

I am not so sure on that - although I will get howled down. You could argue a case for it, and I have had my doubts about recurve in the bows of the English of the medieval era for a few years now. The usual comment is that is the depiction of the "Horn Nocks" but I have my doubts. See also the work by Alissio Cenni. However the bows that stem from that time period come from the Mary Rose and is Renaissance (Tudor) not Medieval.

You appear to have your reflexed/recurve section longer than what I would approximate from the image.

IMHO - If I was asked for an opinion such a style of bow I would lean more to a Burgundian style of bow.

mikaluger wrote:... Grahame, the above longbow thingy is a cracker to shoot. It picks up the weight very early and is glossy smooth. The yew is a factor here I think, that and the length. Arrow speed is fantastic.

Yes. Yew is a very light timber and IMHO that is a big contributing factor as to why it makes good bows.

Great looking bow - if it was mine I would like to see more flex in the outer half on the limbs however it is your bow not mine and I have weird ideas at any rate. Just tell people it is based on the image in Hugh Soars book or call it a Burgundian style of bow and let them worry about if it should or should not be called a longbow. (I would call it a longbow .... taking cover.)

G'day guys, I'm with Grahame on this one,definitely a Burgundian longbow and a good looking bow. Well done, not an easy project.

What ever you want to call it mate, it looks a beauty. Love those horn nocks.

Jim

Yes, a Burgundian long bow but it is a long recurve because the limbs are recurved.

Jeff

I'm impressed with your increasing bowyer's skills. Most people just focus on the one general bow type without ever trying other types, whereas you obviously haven't. As others have said, your workmanship can't be faulted.

It appears to me that the outer limbs aren't doing any work at all. Is this the case, do you think? How would you rate the efficiency of this bow compared to others? What is the bow like to shoot?

Apart from all of that. You must be a very brave individual, or a very confident one. I know that if I set up my portable practice butt against the house, I would not only manage to break an arrow, I would also leave a big chip in the exterior wall. Murphy's law would certainly come into play in that situation for me, I'm sure.

I dunno what you'd call it, but I think it looks a beauty!

Whatever the nomenclature attached to it ,it is an impressive effort and as mentioned, looks very well made. great to see you thinking outside the box.The long non working out limbs are quite unusual for a 'D' section style of bow.

Simply call it a bow.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=2SK ... ow&f=false

The following is from the book 'The Longbow' authored by Mike Loades.

"The Recurved Longbow
A distinctive variation of the regular medieval longbow can be seen in many manuscript images. It was recurved at the ends. There is controversy in determining its geographical distribution and the extent of its use during the medieval period.
Without the material evidence of actual bows, it is hard to be certain. Some maintain that it was exclusive to the archers in the service of Burgundy; this is based on the fact that recurved longbows are more commonly seen in Burgundian art.
English archers were, of course, a mainstay of Burgundian armies during the 15th century, and so even if Burgundy were the source of this style, it may well have been adopted by some English bowmen also."
"There are various definitions for the term longbow, including narrow criteria set out by the British Longbow Society (BLS) that would exclude longbows of a medieval type. The first written reference I can find to the term ‘longbow’ is in a letter from Margaret Paston to her husband John, written in 1449 (Gairdner 1986: 101). At the time John Paston was embroiled in a private war with Robert Moleyns. In 1450 Moleyns sent 1,000 men to dislodge Paston from his castle at Gresham, Norfolk, and his followers subsequently attacked Margaret Paston. She had good reason to attend to the defence of her house in her letter, Margaret urges John to get some ‘crosse bowis’ because the house is too low for men to shoot out with a ‘long bowe’. Here ‘longbow’ is a term used to distinguish it from the crossbow — the longbow was both held ‘longwise’, not mounted ‘crosswise’, and it was also longer than the bow (prod) on a crossbow. Prior to this, longbows were referred to simply as ‘bows’."

Daryl.

Evening All.

greybeard wrote:Simply call it a bow.
"There are various definitions for the term longbow, including narrow criteria set out by the British Longbow Society (BLS) that would exclude longbows of a medieval type. The first written reference I can find to the term ‘longbow’ is in a letter from Margaret Paston to her husband John, written in 1449 (Gairdner 1986: 101). At the time John Paston was embroiled in a private war with Robert Moleyns. In 1450 Moleyns sent 1,000 men to dislodge Paston from his castle at Gresham, Norfolk, and his followers subsequently attacked Margaret Paston. She had good reason to attend to the defence of her house in her letter, Margaret urges John to get some ‘crosse bowis’ because the house is too low for men to shoot out with a ‘long bowe’. Here ‘longbow’ is a term used to distinguish it from the crossbow — the longbow was both held ‘longwise’, not mounted ‘crosswise’, and it was also longer than the bow (prod) on a crossbow. Prior to this, longbows were referred to simply as ‘bows’."

Crikey!!!! That sounds familiar.

A longbow has straight limbs; a recurve has recurved limbs. The bows above have recurved limbs so they are recurves. The fact that they were long simply means they were long recurves.

Jeff

The statement was "This is my take on Renaissance style D section english longbow"
I too want to congratulate you Mika nice work thank you for sharing YOUR TAKE ON...........

Its long, its a bow!!

Nice work Mika

Mick Smith wrote:I'm impressed with your increasing bowyer's skills. Most people just focus on the one general bow type without ever trying other types, whereas you obviously haven't. As others have said, your workmanship can't be faulted.

It appears to me that the outer limbs aren't doing any work at all. Is this the case, do you think? How would you rate the efficiency of this bow compared to others? What is the bow like to shoot?

Apart from all of that. You must be a very brave individual, or a very confident one. I know that if I set up my portable practice butt against the house, I would not only manage to break an arrow, I would also leave a big chip in the exterior wall. Murphy's law would certainly come into play in that situation for me, I'm sure.

Hi Mick,
yes I like to try different things, I see something I like and I do it. Of late tho I have just been letting the wood guide me as I go.

The outer limbs. my thought there was to leave the last 8 inches alone. I hardly tillered them at all, I left them pretty much as they came out of glue up. They do flex back a little at full draw, but retain some reflex I am trying to get some initial arrow speed at release, then the mid limbs kick in and continue forward driving the arrow. This is my thought process with this design. My last couple of flatbows have been like this and are the best I have made.
So why not with a D section? It works so far, I need to really shoot the bow in and see if it will stand up. It is faster than a traditional english longbow, while being just as smooth. I only use the target in my back yard to test. I have only shot it in the back yard to test it. 10m max. It drives my wooden arrows into the butt much further than my other bows.I will take it up the club in a day or two for a proper shoot. It is really nice to shoot.

very very nice, love your work.

Hi Jeff.

Stickbow Hunter wrote:A longbow has straight limbs ....

Does it?

I am not so certain on this.

When it all comes down to it this becomes a study in Taxonomy, Lexicography and Eytmology.

I would suggest that even the "experts" struggle to agree. As an example what many would see as the iconic longbow is the bow used by the English during the 100 Years War period. Yet that bow would fail the requirements of one of he preeminent bodies, the "British Longbow Society".

Whilst people can be pedantic over 'what is' and 'what is not' the characteristics of a particular style of bow reality steps in and produces examples that knock the exemplars down.

Hi David

DavidM wrote:Its long, its a bow!! ...

Here is the question. Where/are 'Longbows' so named because they were/are long in length or to differentiate them from 'crossbows' which have the bow section running crossways as compared to lengthways. Or was it to highlight the issues with shooting them indoors?

Go back to 'Paxton' notes a few posts previously. Things are neither as "clean and simple" as many people hope/wish.

Assuming that the letter was accurately transcribed Margaret Paston wrote 'long bowe' and not longbowe. Similarly with 'crosse bowis' and not crossebowis.

greybeard wrote:some ‘crosse bowis’ because the house is too low for men to shoot out with a ‘long bowe’. "

Daryl.

GrahameA wrote:Hi Jeff.

Stickbow Hunter wrote:A longbow has straight limbs ....

Does it?

I am not so certain on this.

When it all comes down to it this becomes a study in Taxonomy, Lexicography and Eytmology.

The simple fact is different bows have been given different names/classifications according to their design.

Any bow with recurve in its limbs is a recurve of some description!!!

Jeff

It's traditional in style and if you use it to hunt it fits right into this forum, as it says "Australia's Traditional Bowhunting Forum" not Australia's Medievil/ Traditional Archery re-enactment forum,

Goatchaser wrote:It's traditional in style and if you use it to hunt it fits right into this forum, as it says "Australia's Traditional Bowhunting Forum" not Australia's Medievil/ Traditional Archery re-enactment forum,

I really don't know what the point of your post was. Nobody whatsoever has questioned whether the bow was traditional or if it fitted within this forum.

Jeff

I see a lot of posts on here without a point to them, even from mods, just making a bit of a point I guess, Funny thing is I don't remember accusing anyone of saying it wasn't traditional, just pointed out it fits the forum to a tee, and pointed out what the forum refers to in it's title, No one has said it's not trad. but everything else on it has been knocked in some way or another,
I think it's a great looking bow and from how Mick says it shoots I would love to own it.

Goatchaser wrote:but everything else on it has been knocked in some way or another

Neither Mik, his workmanship or his bow has been knocked in any way whatsoever - just the opposite actually.

The ongoing discussion about the bow was simply regarding its classification.

Jeff

Alright I'm out, but it looks to be a hybrid to me, lol.

mikaluger wrote:

Mick Smith wrote:I'm impressed with your increasing bowyer's skills. Most people just focus on the one general bow type without ever trying other types, whereas you obviously haven't. As others have said, your workmanship can't be faulted.

It appears to me that the outer limbs aren't doing any work at all. Is this the case, do you think? How would you rate the efficiency of this bow compared to others? What is the bow like to shoot?

Apart from all of that. You must be a very brave individual, or a very confident one. I know that if I set up my portable practice butt against the house, I would not only manage to break an arrow, I would also leave a big chip in the exterior wall. Murphy's law would certainly come into play in that situation for me, I'm sure.

Hi Mick,
yes I like to try different things, I see something I like and I do it. Of late tho I have just been letting the wood guide me as I go.

The outer limbs. my thought there was to leave the last 8 inches alone. I hardly tillered them at all, I left them pretty much as they came out of glue up. They do flex back a little at full draw, but retain some reflex I am trying to get some initial arrow speed at release, then the mid limbs kick in and continue forward driving the arrow. This is my thought process with this design. My last couple of flatbows have been like this and are the best I have made.
So why not with a D section? It works so far, I need to really shoot the bow in and see if it will stand up. It is faster than a traditional english longbow, while being just as smooth. I only use the target in my back yard to test. I have only shot it in the back yard to test it. 10m max. It drives my wooden arrows into the butt much further than my other bows.I will take it up the club in a day or two for a proper shoot. It is really nice to shoot.

I'm glad to hear that it's not only a good looking bow, it's also a bow that performs well. I have a similar butt to yours in my backyard, but I shoot out to 20 metres. Every now and then, when I do a particularly poor release, the arrow will miss it entirely. I think I would be okay at 10 metres though.

Stickbow Hunter wrote:A longbow has straight limbs

So where do we place bows that have any amount of reflex or de-curve built in?

Daryl.

greybeard wrote:So where do we place bows that have any amount of reflex or de-curve built in?

Straight limb meaning the limbs continually bend toward the archer when strung.

Jeff