Buildalong#2- Hickory pickhandle longbow

[Sabinus]

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Hi everyone.
Well, I hope this turns out to be a documented process of the oft-mentioned but not-so-oft demonstrated project of building a working, full size bow from a spliced pair of hardwood pickhandles. As with my last (first) bow however, I hope to benefit from the advice and experience of you all on this excellent forum.
Pictured are my purchases from bunnings today. As mentioned, the handles are hickory, and they are 35" long by 1 1/2" wide. The growth rings are a pretty decent match i think, and with a fair new/old growth ratio. I'm not going to attempt to chase down to one growth ring or anything fancy like that though- this baby is going to be backed, probably with rawhide like#1.
At this point I can see myself trying a lap (tongue/groove) splice, as I'll be cutting it with a handsaw and this seems the best compromise between creating a big gluing surface area and a realistic goal using handtools. If I make the spliced area 4"long, this will result in a stave 66" long, with a maximum ntn measurement of about 65".
I'm thinking a flatbow with parallel limbs that taper over the last 12" or so of each limb down to the nocks may be the design to start with in mind, and ideally I'd like to achieve a draw weight of 45-50lb @28".
MY QUESTIONS:
-Does the length and width of the timber at hand seem to be enough wood to create a bow of the above mentioned weight/drawlength?
-If so, would the design need to be bending (the tiniest bit) through the handle, and is this even something one should consider with a spliced stave?
-If the spliced area should be rigid, what do you guys estimate may be the most weight I could aim for @28" from the above mentioned
stave?

I know I ask a lot, but if we could make a success of this buildalong I think it would be the only one on the internet, and a really valuable resource for people (like myself) who are yearning to experience bowmaking but are struggling even to source suitable floorboards let alone staves to get started.
Thanks in advance,
Darren

[greybeard]

Darren, when splicing billets I use a 'Z' splice, I think it is also referred to as a "W" splice. Leave the saw teeth marks as this increases the glue surface area.

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All of my spliced billets were glued using a two pack epoxy. Do not over clamp the splice. You can also build in reflex by placing blocks under the tips of the billets.

Another alternative is to make a sleeve takedown bow which will allow for an overall length of 70".

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Achieving a 50# bow should not be a problem.

Pole bamboo is an excellent backing material as it can increase the draw weight as well as adding durability to the bow.

Daryl.

[yeoman]

Darren you're embarking on a most commendable quest.

Your handles should be fine for the draw weight/length you want. I second Greybeard's suggestion of a takedown bow. You don't even have to buy commercial steel/brass sleeves. There are other alternatives available using things you can get off the shelf rather than mail-order.

I wish you the best of luck.

[Sabinus]

Gentlemen, thanks for the suggestions. Both of you have suggested the takedown sleeve system - I'm thinking this will maximise the length of the pickhandles and once the sleeves have been fabricated/sourced/purchased, be a bit easier to create a solid, dependable join between the two halves. And then there are the inherent advantages of a takedown bow. I'm starting to forget why it seemed so important to splice these handles.........

[greybeard]

As mentioned, the handles are hickory, and they are 35" long by 1 1/2" wide. The growth rings are a pretty decent match i think, and with a fair new/old growth ratio. I'm not going to attempt to chase down to one growth ring or anything fancy like that though- this baby is going to be backed, probably with rawhide like#1.

It looks as though you could get both limbs from one handle.

Daryl.

[Sabinus]

Daryl I reckon you probably could......taking into account my minimal 'workshop' setup and my extremely modest level of profficiency I reckon I'll invest in my chances of success by using both handles! Thanks however for the suggestion. I'm looking forward to when having a bit more equipment and a lot more skill will allow me to use my timber a bit more economically.......
Mate I'm going to make my own takedown sleeve assembly (i'm much more comfortable with and kitted out for metalwork), and I'm thinking to basically copy the three rivers 'small' sleeve dimensions, those being 4"long x 1 3/16"wide x 1 1/2"deep (outside dimensions). Do you think this is appropriate for a 45-50lb flatbow?
Darren

[yeoman]

Sounds like a reasonable size to me.

When I started using milled timber, I wasted a lot of what would have been good staves by trying to squeeze two bows when I should have tried for only one. I can be more audacious now, but I'd encourage the use of both the handles to make one bow.

[greybeard]

Darren, I have found the small Bingham sleeve when wrapped is a comfortable size for me.

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The outer steel sleeve has a wall thickness of .070" or about 1.8 mm and the brass inner sleeves .047" or about 1.18 mm.

If you are making your own sleeve system design them to suit your needs.

The tubes appear to be formed from round stock.

Daryl.

[Sabinus]

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Hi guys,
I've briefly put the tools down to really resolve the important parts of this project, and as per usual, could use your input. The closeup diagram of the riser just a bit of decoration really, my real query revolves around the scribble of the two bows side by side. Where is the best place to locate the 'center' of the bow? I took a tape measure to my Joe Vardon longbow for the first time earlier, and noted that it is laid out like the bow on the right of the page - the center of the bow is the center of the riser, and both limbs are the same length. This obviously puts the arrow shelf 2" above the center of the bow. I shoot this bow split finger, and grip the riser with my thumb and top two fingers, with the ring and pinky finger curled into my palm. This puts my 'pivot point' with the bow about 1 inch under the arrow shelf, if that makes sense. (actually I've just gone and added photos 'case in doesn't!)
The bow layout I have scribbled on the left is something I was reading on the net today, with the center of the bow 1" below the shelf, and the bottom limb an inch shorter than the top limb. The bowyer responsible (Fisk Bows?) claims this configuration allows for more forgiving flight from less than perfectly matched arrows. What do you guys feel the advantages of each configuration would be?
I think I need to stick with what i know works for me, but I guess I don't really understand why it works for me, and if indeed something else may work better......
Thanks again Legends,
Darren

[greybeard]

Darren,

To help understand the explanation we must treat the limbs as being identical in mechanical properties and in both instances the upper and lower limbs have been profiled to the same dimensional cross section.

When the bow with equal length limbs is braced the tiller should be the same for the upper and lower limbs i.e. zero tiller.
As a general rule the upper limb will need softening to bring in the required amount of positive tiller for the Mediterranean release.

The bow with the longer upper limb when braced should show a degree of positive tiller.
The amount of positive tiller required for limb timing can in part vary due to the pivot point and arrow pass.

A bow with a longer upper limb should require less tillering.

Finally I cannot see any relevance to the following statement:

claims this configuration allows for more forgiving flight from less than perfectly matched arrows.

If both bows are tillered correctly the arrow flight should be similar.

Daryl.

[Sabinus]

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Thanks for the clarification Daryl, I believe I'll build limbs of equal length in the spirit of not trying to overcomplicate things. I do take your point though about introducing some positive tiller to cater for the split finger grip. I've never measured my J.Vardon longbow for positive tiller, I would expect it will be there though, and might use it as a guide for how much to build into this bow.
Attached are a couple of photos of where I'm at - I can't exactly race ahead until I've made and installed my takedown sleeves, but contented myself today with cutting and roughly shaping the extra hardwood I'll be using to build an elliptical cross-sectioned handle in bow#2. Can anyone ID or guess at the identity of this timber? I picked it up as a scrap years ago and till today my fletching jig was bolted to it. Really hard and dense. I cut matching tip overlays from it as well.
Also pictured are the two tools I've used till now in this build. The Stanley Sure Form Rasp has made quick work of ripping these tool handles down into bow billets - it's the first tool I'd recommend to someone who wanted to build a self bow. The other tool pictured is one I bought at a second hand tool merchant just the other day, and today proved to easily be worth it's $8.00 price tag. This Farrier's Rasp has a flat cutting surface and a half round surface, which today made short work of cutting the taper curve in the end grain of the two hardwood riser pieces. I was really surprised with how quickly and accurately it did a job I thought may require a bit of time and fiddling. I anticipate the riser will curve and taper a bit further down into the hickory belly, so my glue joins shouldn't come under much if any bending strain.
This brings me to a query - I've scored my glueing surfaces with the teeth of a hacksaw blade and everything is flat and flush. I want to use either a 24 hour, two- part epoxy, or Titebond III to glue these parts together. I know that smooth on or other glues may be people's preferred choice, but my challenge is to try and use what I currently have at hand. Would one or both of these options suffice?
Thanks guys, more to come soon.
Darren

[yeoman]

Titebond III would be a great choice. I think the glue choice in this application is less critical than for say a backing or handle splice, because the takedown sleeves will do a great deal to hold the wood together.

Is that hardwood Jarrah?

I had a Surform rasp in the early days. I really liked it. Now I have a Japanese rasp, and think it is what a surform rasp wants to be when it grows up.

I think you will likely find there is too much timber in the riser with the hardwood additions as thick as they are. What is the total thickness with those blocks? You likely will also need to make the gradient of the taper far less severe.

[Sabinus]

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Hi Yeoman,
Thanks for the feedback. You were absolutely right about the steep taper from the back of the riser into the hickory billet -it's a real 'thing' for beginning bowyers, isn't it? Most people seem to make the same mistake. I guess i was trying to minimise this 'fade' distance because I'm paranoid about not leaving enough active wood for 50lb limbs! Silly I know, and I would rather have a successful 43
lb bow at the end of this than a briefly 50lb dud in any case!
So, I made the riser blocks again today, as pictured. The taper down into the hickory is much more gradual than my last effort, and it will continue down into and along the hickory limb, so my glue joins shouldn't come under any strain. Does this look a bit more suitable?
Regarding the query about the thickness of limb wood and riser wood together, I don't think there is too much excess here - I'm modelling the depth and width of the hand grip on my custom bow, so there is 1/4" or so to come off each side of the riser as it is, and maybe half of that from the current depth. I may be carving a bow out of bigger chunks of wood than some of you guys do, but guess that's my current strategy to keep my progress slow enough that I may catch potential screw ups before they get too bad!
On the topic of rasps - good point regarding the japanese variety over the Stanley Surform. If the surform has an advantage it is a bit cheaper and available at almost any decent hardware store, although if you had $40.00 and a Carbatec store nearby, it sounds like the Shinto Rasp might be the go.
Darren

[yeoman]

That is looking much better, especially taking into consideration the dotted line, which I think will be quite close to correct in the end.

Personally I prefer a handle not so deep, but if you find your custom bow comfortable, then by all means go for it.

Don't worry too much about having too little bending limb. Experienced bowyers make hickory bows in the 60" range with somewhat stiff handles, so a 70" bow is really quite generous for length. Potentially, your nocks could be 1 inch in from the end, and you could still have about a 12 inch riser section to give two bending limbs each 28 inches long.

[greybeard]

Spoke shaves are another excellent tool for working on selfbows but I also like my 2" electric planer and 2" belt sander to remove excess timber in a short time.

The belt sander is good for the initial tillering.

Daryl.

[Sabinus]

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Hi guys, well, not too much on the bow front to report on - waiting to source some stainless steel tube and get to work on making then fitting the take down sleeves.
On another topic, my stock of bow wood surged today. Dad was down in Mount Gambier and went by Masters, sent me the photo of the two straightest grain red oak boards he could find. Apparently the one on the right has more old growth so that's the one he bought. Wood for at least one new bow, maybe two. My cup runneth over!

[longbow steve]

Hi Sabinus, looking at the pics of the back of your hickory, The growth rings appear to be violated? Apparently hickory can tolerate this a little but you may want to chase a ring while you still have plenty of material to work with to ensure you don't fail in tension.
Looking good otherwise. Cheers Steve

[Sabinus]

Hey Steve,
Thanks for the feedback. Since I selected this timber and started work, I've been advised that I should have orientated the growth rings differently, so that the thickness of each growth ring could be seen on the back and the belly of the bow. I was only about 90 degrees off, LOL! Seriously though, even though the lesson is learned, I still want to get the best result I can with what I've done. The growth rings are a bit too wavy to follow one as the back of the bow, I was hoping a backing would do the job. My last (first) bow was backed with rawhide - do you see a simple backing offering enough protection in this situation?

[Roadie]

Ay Great to see in the photos you are Drinking a Great Ale, Cheers Roadie.

[yeoman]

Without examining it in person, I would hasten to guess these billets are still okay, given Hickory's resilience in situations of minor grain violation.

From what I can tell, the billet on the right has violations most severely at the closest end. This will be rigid due to the added handle thickness. I think I can see the violation leveling out from there.

To be a proof of concept, I think this bow should have a backing no more than rawhide. It'd look very 1950s to have a hickory bow, rawhide backed, with a steel sleeve takedown.

[Sabinus]

Yeoman thanks for the 'vision' there, I love it! I'm very keen to sort out the takedown sleeves and join these billets up.
And Roadie, Paleys are at their best freezing cold at this time of year, with the cricket on the radio!
Darren

[Sabinus]

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Hi guys,
Well, back to work this week, so progress on the take-down has slowed up a little, but not stopped altogether. I scored some stainless steel tubing with surprising ease early in the week, and I already had the brass sheet at home. I bent up the brass into a tube and silver soldered the seam last night, but tonight I had to cut about a 1/8" strip out of the tube as it was too big to fit inside the stainless. Resoldered, hammered round and presto! By the time I've emery-ed the all the oxidisation from the brass I should have just the right fit that I can put one sleeve inside the other and squeeze them a bit elliptical in the hydraulic press.
This is totally not a stage I'd recommend anyone take on unless you are a bit mad, a bit broke, and set up with the right equipment and tools for the job. I qualify on all counts. Everyone else just fork out your $40 (and postage) to Three Rivers and wait for the postie!
Dave I'm totally buying into your vision of an american 1950's blend of innovation and tradition with this bow - can't wait until my takedown assembly has integrated my rough glued up handles into a 70" hickory stave - then the real fun can begin!
Darren

[yeoman]

Looking swish!

And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess, by the wooden item screwed onto your workbench, that your profession, or at least another hobby, is as a jeweler. Am I close?

Once you get the sleeves fitting perfectly, you will need to squish them and make the cross section ovoid.

[Sabinus]

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Good deduction Yeoman, i'm a jewellery CAD/CAM-er these days, but my initial interest and training was and is in hand making.
Well, I did the final fit and 'the squish' to finish the take down sleeves the other night, and today used the farriers rasp to cut that which will be the bottom limb to fit the outer steel sleeve. So far I've found the 'shark teeth' on the farriers rasp make this a fantastic tool for cutting across wood fibres, and into the end grain, especially with the jarrah I am using here in my riser.
I have a question in regard to glueing the takedown sleeves to their respective billets - would 24 hour araldite be a suitable option? I know 'smooth on' would be better, but I've got the araldite already so would use it if could.

[yeoman]

Not sure what the CAD/CAM reference is, but I'm mighty proud of my jewelry deduction.

Honestly I think 5 minute epoxy would be fine. The forces experienced in the handle are borne by the metal, and there're few forces, if any, trying to separate wood from metal sleeve.

[Stickbow Hunter]

You are doing a great job with the bow and take down sleeve. Thanks for keeping us up to date. I'm not sure about the Araldite but check the specs on their web site as that should give you the information you need.

Jeff

[bigbob]

All looking great so far, keen to see more.

[Tom Alker]

Great read so far, Got me keen to start one! Got my handles at home just waiting for you to finish this one up so i can copy your steps.

Cheers, Tom.

[Sabinus]

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Hi guys.
Well, I shaped the top limb billet today to fit the brass inner take down sleeve. I used the farriers rasp, and a large rough bastard file to slowly carve down to a firm, aligned fit. My best advise would be to not rush this stage - commit to going really slow. I started this stage of the make with the right attitude, took my time…….and still stuffed it. Well not totally, there is a bit of play in the fit of each ferrule to it's billet now. Just enough that I have to check everything is 'sitting right' when I glue them. Finished the day by using 24 hour epoxy to attach the steel sleeve to the bottom limb billet. By then half inserting the top limb and leaving unsupported, gravity pulls the glue-up into a straight line and just a tiny bit of back-set. That's my theory at least! I was tempted to glue the other parts tonight, but could easily see myself glueing everything together instead so will wait till tomorrow.

[Sabinus]

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Hi Guys,
The epoxy I used to join the takedown components to the billets was dry enough today to join my billets together and take stock of the resultant stave. The sleeves fit firmly but smoothly together, and only moderate effort is needed to pull them apart, to a satisfying champagne cork 'pop!'. The billets line up well, although some natural 'swerve' in one of the limbs means that I'll be only just be able to fit my design onto the stave. I made marks up the middle of the handle and then extended it out to the ends of each limb with the aid of a long piece of string. From there I have laid out a simple flat bow of 70" long, with parallel limbs tapering down to 1/4" nocks over the outer 12" of each limb. joining these pick handles together has been a fair bit of work- I'm really glad to have reached the point of being able to make wood shavings again!!!