Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

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greybeard
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Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#1 Post by greybeard » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:13 pm

I finally got around to finishing the takedown prototype.

The riser is made from pieces of silky oak, spotted gum, Tasmanian blackwood and black wattle from the off-cuts bin.

The limbs are vertical bamboo under .040 brown Bo-Tuff and the limb wedges are black wattle.

Draw weight is 43# @ 28” but I incorrectly marked the limb 48# @ 28” which is from the dlpp.

Brace height is 8” and n to n length is 62”.

Daryl.
01 Riser.JPG
01 Riser.JPG (33.71 KiB) Viewed 7777 times
02 Riser.JPG
02 Riser.JPG (34.69 KiB) Viewed 7777 times
04 Riser.JPG
04 Riser.JPG (34.49 KiB) Viewed 7777 times
05 Unbraced Bow.JPG
05 Unbraced Bow.JPG (47.18 KiB) Viewed 7777 times
06 Takedown Braced.JPG
06 Takedown Braced.JPG (60.61 KiB) Viewed 7777 times
07 Stiffened Tip.JPG
07 Stiffened Tip.JPG (35.81 KiB) Viewed 7777 times
43# Takedown  Recurve Graph.jpg
43# Takedown Recurve Graph.jpg (100.15 KiB) Viewed 7777 times
Takedown Recurve Chart.jpg
Takedown Recurve Chart.jpg (124.51 KiB) Viewed 7777 times
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#2 Post by GrahameA » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:28 am

Morning Daryl

Nice f/d curve. Bow would suite me - whilst the is only a start of load rate increasing at the end of the draw it would be of no issue to me at 28".

All.

Have been watching this go together over a long period of time and it is a very nice bow. It is interesting from a custom viewpoint in that the handgrip fits Daryl spot -on and I find it tight.
Grahame.
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#3 Post by Bill » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:39 am

8) nice looking bow, love the limb recurve, love the over all complete look of the bow, a job done well.

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#4 Post by Gringa Bows » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:15 am

Very nice Daryl,i like it :biggrin:

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#5 Post by Macca » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:23 am

Nice looking recurve graybeard, looking forward to a field review.

Cheers Macca.

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#6 Post by Roadie » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:41 am

Nice looking Bow Greybeard, will we see it in action at Wisemans shoot. Cheers Roadie.

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#7 Post by stringnstik » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:03 am

ahh you beat me to it Daryl, congrats. Shame on me I should have finished mine long ago:) Just been too busy and wanted to get more experience up b4 finishing off the one we started.
Now I have to make mine look at least as good as yours :lol

Love your choice woods, absolutely gorgeous.
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#8 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:41 am

Looks good as usual Daryl; nice work. I assume the tips are pretty much static because of the wedges used in the limb tips???
greybeard wrote:Draw weight is 43# @ 28” but I incorrectly marked the limb 48# @ 28” which is from the dlpp.
Even confusing yourself by using DLPP measurements huh! :lol:

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#9 Post by nonforgetful archer » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:32 am

great looking bow it is good to see a job turn out so well

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#10 Post by Nutgrass » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:52 pm

Agree with everyone, a very nice looking bow 8)
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#11 Post by Flatliner » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:41 pm

Great D/F curve Daryl, And Excellent shaping on the riser, All round very nice piece of work 8) .

Rob
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#12 Post by Guy Layton » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:49 pm

Looks good Daryl... Make sure you bring it down to Robs for a few shots... 8)

Cheers Guy
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#13 Post by little arrows » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:31 pm

so Daryl, when are you going to bring it up to show me, 'cause that last one is really good too........ :smile:
Lovely work.

cheers
sue

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#14 Post by bear74 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:19 pm

that is a sweet looking bow GB, it is very appealing to the eye.
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#15 Post by GrahameA » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:08 am

Morning Mark.
stringnstik wrote:ahh you beat me to it Daryl, congrats. Shame on me I should have finished mine long ago:) Just been too busy and wanted to get more experience up b4 finishing off the one we started.
Now I have to make mine look at least as good as yours :lol
Good excuse - I must remember that one.

This bow will shoot nice. I shot it in the square so to speak when the handle had a long way to go and it has a bit of punch for its weight.
Grahame.
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#16 Post by BenBow » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:02 am

Very nice lines!

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#17 Post by greybeard » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:09 pm

Thank you for your kind comments.

With the takedown system I can build bows down to 58” off the one form.

I erred on the side of 62” n to n as I did not know what weight the limbs would yield. It is a comfortable weight for an older person to shoot around a field coarse so luck must have been on my side.

Four coats of clear were applied and after allowing three days for the finish to harden it was hand rubbed to a satin finish.

The belly laminations are tapered, but in hindsight after using parallel laminations in recurve #3 parallel laminations would appear to be the better option. With a distance of 13” between the limb fade and tip stiffening the taper is negligible. On recurve #3 the measurement is just over 11”.

Hopefully I will be able to do some comparative testing in the near future.

If you look at the photo of the unbraced bow you will notice that the pivot point is virtually in line with the limbs and with the amount of recurve in the stiffened tips a bow stringer is a necessity to avoid twisting the limbs.

Mark,

I was going to dob you in but my gentle natured side took over. Have you still got the template for the limb angles on the riser?
Once the limbs were trued up to equal dimensions the bow came out with 1/8” positive tiller.

Jeff,

It does not take too much to side track me these days. :oops: :oops: :lol: :lol:

The stiffened tips do open a little at full draw.

As we know brace height is measured from the pivot point so logically the draw length should be measured similarly. Unfortunately the A.M.O. system came into being to confuse the issue.

For those who are not familiar with the A.M.O. standards;

“AMO DRAW LENGTH STANDARD
For Manufacturers
Draw length is a specified distance, or the distance at the archer’s full draw, from the nocking point on the string to the pivot point of the bow grip (or the theoretical vertical projection of a tangency line to the pivot point parallel to the string) plus 1 3/4”.

Draw length from pivot point shall be designed at DLPP and shall be called TRUE DRAW LENGTH.

EXAMPLE: 26 1/4” DLPP plus 1 3/4” is the equivalent of 28” draw.
For Dealers and General Use
For practical reasons not requiring precise terms, draw length is the distance, at the archer’s full draw, from the nocking point on the string to the back of the bow at the arrow rest.
EXPLANATION: The standard Manufacturers is consistent with the Bow Weight Standard as related to the pivot point. The DLPP plus 1 3/4” is compatible to previous concepts of draw length.
(See handle illustration.)
Draw length for Dealers and General Use relieves the burden of preciseness not required for general use and facilitates determining arrow length. THIS STANDARD SUPERSEDES THE PREVIOUS STANDARD.”



Rob,

I endeavour to change the shape of my risers so that no two are the same. There is a block of Macassar ebony sitting on my shelf waiting to be turned into a riser. The Black and Decker power files are excellent for removing excess material in a short time.

Ongoing wrist problems mean I won’t be attending Wisemans this time [although the bow may get there], North Albert or Caboolture. The earliest appointment I could get with the specialist is the 20th of April.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#18 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:30 pm

Thanks for the extra info Daryl.
greybeard wrote:There is a block of Macassar ebony sitting on my shelf waiting to be turned into a riser.
Now that will be extra nice I should think. It is one of my favourite woods. :biggrin:

I hope you get some positive news about your wrists when you finally get to see the specialist.

Jeff

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#19 Post by flyne » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:30 pm

Very nice top job on a awesome looking bow
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#20 Post by bigbob » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:41 am

Very nice looking bow with smooth force/ draw curve too.
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#21 Post by hazard » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:50 pm

Daryl
This bow has a very aesthetically pleasing shape. Very pretty :mrgreen:

The gentle transition of the timber is compelling.

The draw curve says a lot as well, you really make a nice bow :biggrin:

The simplicity of the Riser really works well you are a credit to your Art

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#22 Post by rmcpb » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:05 pm

That's one seriously NICE bow.
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#23 Post by bigbob » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:03 pm

The more I look at it, it just seems to get better and betterer. :biggrin: It really is a stunning bow in appearance and with terrific flowing lines. Just one thought,how do you think the silky oak with its open grain structure will pan out. I realise its only a 'cap' piece so to speak. Congrats on another fantastic example of great craftmanship Daryl.
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#24 Post by greybeard » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:15 pm

Bob,

I do not have any concerns regarding the integrity of the silky oak/beef wood but on this occasion I feel it does not blend with the other timbers used in the riser.

From the outset this riser [built from scrap] was intended to be used as a test bed for subsequent limbs.

The upper section of the F/D curve is fine; it is the lower section that needs improvement if possible.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#25 Post by bigbob » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:59 am

Just going by the photos the beefwood seems to blend quite nicely to my eye.Re the draw curve, the figures suggest it maintains a fairly even rate approx 2.5lb per in of draw until around 28'' draw.Not too bad for a 'bitza'?
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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#26 Post by rodlonq » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:05 pm

Very nice Daryl.

I think the timbers work well together. A picture at full draw would be great if you happen to take one.

Cheers........ Rod

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#27 Post by greybeard » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:42 am

Hi Rod,

I finally got a photo of the bow at full draw.
Take Down Recurve At Full Draw .JPG
Take Down Recurve At Full Draw .JPG (168.82 KiB) Viewed 7798 times
The string to tip angle is still low and you will notice that the stiffened tips open a little more at full draw. I think this explains the slight deviation in the f/d line at the top end of the graph.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#28 Post by longbow steve » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:42 am

Take%20Down%20Recurve%20At%20Full%20Draw%20.JPG
Take%20Down%20Recurve%20At%20Full%20Draw%20.JPG (122.5 KiB) Viewed 7763 times
Hi Daryl, I know I have asked about string to limb relationship when it exceeds 90 deg and would it cause stack. I have read elsewhere that it does. Is there any way of testing whether the tips opening is efficient or whether they are doing so because the limb cant bend any further? Perhaps reducing the core taper a bit more may increase performance? Steve

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#29 Post by greybeard » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:12 pm

Hi Steve,

I believe that the stiffened tips offer a better mechanical advantage as the bow nears full draw.
Take_ Down Recurve At Full Draw .jpg
Take_ Down Recurve At Full Draw .jpg (180.98 KiB) Viewed 7738 times

Korean bows appear to have relatively short stiff tips and at the top end of the scale are the rigid tips [siyaha’s] as seen in Asiatic styled bows.
Korean Bow At Full Draw.jpg
Korean Bow At Full Draw.jpg (132.48 KiB) Viewed 7738 times
Jonell.jpg
Jonell.jpg (87.56 KiB) Viewed 7738 times
Sandor Horvath.jpg
Sandor Horvath.jpg (27.97 KiB) Viewed 7738 times


With regards to core taper the one piece recurve shown in the chart has two parallel laminations and the takedown has one parallel and one tapered lamination.
001 Bow Test.jpg
001 Bow Test.jpg (68.34 KiB) Viewed 7738 times
Although the one piece stored a little more energy the take down produced higher arrow velocities. Both bows were tested using the same set of arrows.

There are more questions than answers at present but more testing on different limb configurations may yield results.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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Re: Recurve # 4: Takedown Prototype.

#30 Post by longbow steve » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Thanks for the detailed reply Daryl. I have had a beer tonight after working easter so I will read your reply in better detail tomorrow when I can better understand it :smile: . Steve

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