Flatline opus 1&2 take-down recurve Build-a-long

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Flatliner
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#31 Post by Flatliner » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:25 pm

I found myself cleaning the glue off my hands at 1.30 am last night ( I'm sure there's a fold in the space/ time continuum in my shed :lol: :lol: ), but due to that things are starting to come together.
Here's a good reason to make such flash overlays,, this is the sort of thing I'm covering up. The masking tape is cut where the overlay starts and is used as a sanding guide.
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When gluing glass or phenolic the surface must be sufficiently roughened to provide a mechanical bond. in the case of phenolic I have found it good practice to grind enough material away to expose the fabric, and both phenolic and glass must be well sanded with 40 grit paper as a minimum.
After sanding the area I remove a bit more tape and sand approaches to the overlay with 180grt paper so the glue overlap has a bond. This same process is used for all of the overlays.
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I use a pyramid stack of rubber strips (to maintain even pressure) and duct tape to glue the string groove overlays on. The rubber is coated with packing tape as a bond breaker and provides a glass smooth finish to the glue.
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Taped up and bolt overlays clamped in place.
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and after a bit of a clean up.
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The knock tips are cut, and beveled on the grinder, then marked using the limb tip as a profile.
I'm using very thin Silver Ash veneers for the limb plane underlays because it is quite soft in lateral compression and will mold to fit the limb planes and have a mild cushioning affect.
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I try to do as much shapping to the knock tips as I can before they are glued on.
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Run out of attachment space again, back soon.
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:58 am, edited 8 times in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Flatliner
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#32 Post by Flatliner » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:10 pm

Here's the prep for the underlays and the knock tips in clamps.
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The blocks I use to clamp the underlays are radiused to match the curve of the limb precisly,have a layer of rubber and a coating of packing tape.
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Now onto the riser, I've already added the blood (little accident with a gluing clamp) now it's time for the sweat, (the tears I hope, will be tears of joy when I shoot the first arrow out of it).
I cut out the sight window using a series of cuts with the hacksaw (gets the heart pumping).
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Then armed with my fatherless file :P, I cleaned it up and gave it a slight radius.
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Then I put a 16 grit,, yeah thats right 16 grit belt on my grinder and radiused the top of the sight window, cleaned it up with 40 grit and then a round-back file and called it a day,,,,,,,,,,
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Bit anoyed the leaf is a bit out of line :sad: ,,oh well at least now I wont have to burn it :wink: :lol: :lol: .

It's a day, Rob
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#33 Post by Flatliner » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:46 pm

Ok, the next stage is shaping the riser, something I can't really guide you through, it's something that has to be learned by doing it, and because everyones hands are different and everyones idea of what shapes and curves look good it's a very individual thing. But the best advice I can give you is; take your time and take less off than you think (it's easy to take it off but very hard to put back on. They haven't invented the wood welder yet :lol: ).
I always start by doing the critical parts first and working away from them, like the site window and then the throat or the neck (or what ever you call it :? ),,the narrowest part of the hand grip.
Always (when working on a machine) leave yourself a little more than you think to remove by hand, but by the same token don't leave yourself with a too bulky grip in fear of taking to much off, and when sanding by hand try to keep the paper moving in multiple directions.
I use a 16 grit belt to take the bulk off and then go down to a 24 to shape it and clean it up with a 40 grit before I start the hand sanding.
The first step in the grind.
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I use a 1" barrel sander in the drill press to clean up the throat of the grip.
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Roughed out and cleaned up.
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Then it's a series of different grade strips of cloth backed paper, used in an omnidirectional (good word hey, :P I think I just made that up :? :lol: ) manner.
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After all the rough work is done the shelf is radiused and beveled on the grinder.
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And cleaned up with a file and 180 paper.
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Then back to refit the limbs to the riser using the same process as the first time, including working with the bow strung when matching the overlays to the riser.
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With the fitted limbs attached to the riser a mark is made on the limb pocket heel to grind to.
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More coming up.
Rob.
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:13 am, edited 9 times in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#34 Post by Flatliner » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:46 pm

Continued from the edit on the last post.

Then carefully ground.
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Gaskets are made from 0.7mm Rubber joist flashing using the bingham jig again.
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Then with the limbs bolted in place, the riser is made flush with the limbs and all the corners are rounded off.
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And it's really starting to come together now, just the string grooves, about a week of sanding and coating, a bit of sign writing, a string and silencers and some strike plates to go :roll: :lol:
I unmasked the limbs so they could take their first few breaths :D .
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I see a light ahead 8) , Rob.
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#35 Post by Flatliner » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:48 pm

It occures to me I didn't go through the knock tips and string groove processes, so here they are.
The knock tips are roughly reshaped using the same method as before, being carefull not to change there depth.(I always mask the edge of the limb When gluing the knock tips and other overlays on, it then becomes a guide so you know that you have come to the original surface when shaping them. Then with the limb clamped to the bench, file a groove at a right angle across the back of the knock a couple of mil away from where it will finish.
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Using flat and round files and strips of cloth backed sand paper of various grades, 20 minutes later We've got this :) .
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The string grooves are made by marking an acurate line down the center of the overlay, and with the hacksaw remove it by cutting a shallow groove making sure not to cut into the glass.
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The groove is veed using a square file.
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And using progressively larger round files, create a groove that will fit the thick part of the string.
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Then round all of the sharp edges with 180 paper.
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Here's a handy hint, when gluing overlays on don't wipe all the glue from where they join the glass. Leave a little and run your finger tip lightly over it to cove it to the glass and sand smooth when it's dry.
I did the draw force curve on the bow last night, the best curve yet so it should be extra sweet to shoot and it's come out at exactly 53# @ 28" 8) :biggrin: .
If I can remember how to operate my scanner I'll post it.
..... :confused: ....... :confused: ..... :neutral: ...... :smile: ...... 8) ...Got it sussed. Isn't that the sweetest curve you've seen? :smile: :biggrin: ....... It'd almost make a good limb shape :idea: :smile: .
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The fact that the feature in the string groove overlay lines up perfectly with the string groove in the knock tip is pure ass 8) :wink: .

Rob.
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:41 am, edited 11 times in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#36 Post by Flatliner » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:22 pm

Oh yeah, I've got Pauls first limb in the oven, I'll do the other tomorrow,,,,See I'm on to it Paul :wink: :lol: :lol: .

Rob.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#37 Post by Flatliner » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:43 pm

Paul's limb blanks are on the riser, coming together very nicely, the first gloss coat is on Great storm,,,Wow, :shock: :biggrin: and then I remembered I've run out of bow quiver inserts and they have to be put in before any more coats go on. So I've ordered them express from three rivers,,3-5 days, , not bad really. Not cheap either :neutral: .

I'll have a bit of a rave about how I go about coating my bows but like I said I'm not a spray painter so it's just what I do.
First I sand all the timber surfaces with 220 grit until ALL of the machine marks are gone, then a coat of pressure pack satin. This is alowed to dry for two days and then sanded off, and I mean off, it's only used as a grain filler and should only remain in the pores not on the surface of the timber. Thats the last time I use sand paper, unless I get a run or something,,,native bees, dog hair,sideways rain, green frogs, elephant beatles etc in the coat. From here on I just use 000 grade steel wool to remove ALL of the gloss between coats, works really well on the curves.
I use a marine grade UV treated, gloss, polyurathane designed for hard wearing surfaces called "Weatherfast poly clear" made by "Norfast" for all of the build up coats, usually 3-4 and then finish it off with a coat of satin to take the shine off. (seems like such a shame some times :( ) It's applied using a small touch-up spray gun that holds up to 100 ml of product.

No pics,, thought I'd make ya's hangout to see the final product :P :P :wink: .

Cheers, Rob.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
ImageEmail; robnicoll(at)bigpond(dot)com
www.flatlinebows.com.au

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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#38 Post by Flatliner » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:02 pm

Still waiting for the inserts.
Paul's bow weighed in at 63 # on the first weigh and should finish on 60 #.
The top limb had a slight twist so I thought I'd post how it is fixed.
Here's the top limb, notice how the string sits slightly to the left of center of the limb. So what we want to do is get the knock tip to move to the right and stay there of it's own accord, taking the string to the right with it. Because the twist is so minimal it can be easily remedied by (IMO) correcting the imbalance in tensions/resistance within the timber lams. (Which is a complicated way of saying; twist it back the other way :roll: :P )
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So with the tip of the bottom limb resting on my foot, I firmly hold the base of the top limb in one hand and the tip in the other and twist the tip in the direction I want it to go.
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Give it a firm twist and then work the bow a few times and check how the string tracks. If it's good, then job done, if not then repeat the process but twist it a little harder. You don't have to be afraid of breaking the limb, I think you'd have to be pretty buffed to do any damage. Of course there are limits to how much limb twist you can correct in this manner, if the twist is to severe, then the knock tip must be physically moved in the required direction by filing the knock groove on the necessary side deeper and removing the same amount from the edge of the limb tip, (this is best done in very small increments.

Cheers, Rob.
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#39 Post by Flatliner » Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:11 pm

The inserts haven't turned up yet,,,3-5 days,,,yeah right :x :sad: . At least I'm making progress on Pauls bow, Though I made a bit of a mistake tillering it and over corrected the bottom limb, so had to bring the top limb down to match and as a result lost a pound. Now it's 59 # @ 28",,,bummer :| .

Rob.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#40 Post by Flatliner » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:35 pm

Still no inserts :evil: ,,, you can tell how hard I was hitting the keys when I typed that, it's not in bold. Ive sent 3 Rivers a mildly abusive email insinuating that they are providing misleading information on there website. I'm sure that'll do the trick,, :roll: not :lol:.

So now both bows are at the same stage and waiting for inserts. I thought Paul (and y'all) would like to see what his looked like. It's typical isn't it, Paul's leaf is perfectly in line :roll: :mrgreen: .

And here's a picture.
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Starting to get a little impatient, Rob.
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#41 Post by Flatliner » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:37 pm

Did Paul's bows draw force curve, it's a little different to mine but still very nice. Just goes to show the variation you can get, the only difference between the bows is 8 thou in core thickness.
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Cheers, Rob.
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#42 Post by Flatliner » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:51 am

Out of despiration on Friday evening I searched through my box of old stock and found enough inserts for one bow,,, guess which bow I put them in :lol: . Got them in and another coat of gloss on that night, (there's keen for you, not sure what the nieghbours thought about the compressor at 11.00 PM but I guess it was Friday night :D ) Steelwooled it last night and put what was intended to be the final coat of satin on this morning. Wouldn't you know it :roll: :x , I got a run on one of the limbs, so there's STILL another coat to go. It's a good thing I still have my hair otherwise I'd have nothing to pull out :| :lol: :lol: .

Cheers, Rob.
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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www.flatlinebows.com.au

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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#43 Post by Flatliner » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:36 pm

Yahoo! my bow is finished :biggrin: And I'm really really happy with it :biggrin: :biggrin: .
I made a colour coordinated, 15 strand, three ply, B50 string (Which is my choice and the string I recommend to run on a Flatline MC2. because speed is not an issue with them but noise can be when using the higher performance strings) with coloured lambs wool silencers made from 5mm strips of lambs wool woven into the string. The arrow shelf and strike plate are made from double sided tape backed, bristle fabric striped from one of those paint pad system refills,cut into shape and coloured with permanent marker (another bit of Aussie ingenuity born out of necessity and ignorence) this stuff is really tough and you need very sharp sissors to trim it and it lasts for ever.
Added a bit of bling in the way of brass limb bolt bezels, and it's come up looking quite classy 8) .
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This is with 9 grains per pound of draw weight carbon arrows and a B50 string :shock: , I think the bamboo/three lams has given it a little boost (nice surprise, though it is the highest speed recorded out of 12 arrows, but the average speed is 192 FPS)

I've run out of attachment space again, be back with the clincher shortly.
Rob.
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#44 Post by Flatliner » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:11 pm

This is the clincher, this is where you find out if the bow is good or just looks good.

Here's an average group I was geting this afternoon at 22 meters :shock: and I'm not kiding 8) 8) :biggrin: .
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IT"S GOOD :biggrin: :biggrin: 8) 8) .
Now all I have to do is take it out and thack it around the scrub a bit so it looks right, for those that think it looks to good to take bush :lol: (I don't make ornaments) I told paul that if I find out his is just hanging on the wall I would come over there and take it off him :P :wink: .

The inserts finaly arrived this afternoon, I've put them in and hope to get the coats finished by Tuesday. Still have to make the knife handle blocks, but hope to have them finished in time to send them over with the bow........ :?: :?: How much do I insure it for :?: :?: ?

Cheers Rob
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
ImageEmail; robnicoll(at)bigpond(dot)com
www.flatlinebows.com.au

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Flatliner
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#45 Post by Flatliner » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:22 pm

My next design project is a one-piece MC, around the 58" mark with narrow limbs (38mm / 1 and 1/2" wide). I'm going to push the hand grip forward an inch to account for the shorter length and to keep the string angle the same and will decrease the deflex angle by one degree to keep the draw length in the optimum range for energy efficiency. It'll have a triple lam format with a bamboo core. (see I am a fast learner :wink: :lol: ) I'm hoping to break the elusive 200 fps mark :roll: but still have a comfortable shooting bow.

Cheers, Rob.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
ImageEmail; robnicoll(at)bigpond(dot)com
www.flatlinebows.com.au

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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#46 Post by Flatliner » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:16 pm

I hope to get out after some pigs in August Nick Lintern is coming up and a friend (Grayham Foster) is trying to organise a trip north of Hopevale somewhere 8) .

Shot Paul's bow today 8) excellent stuff :biggrin: put it through the crono average speed is 190 FPS with a 9 grain per pound of draw weight arrow, :?: two fps slower than mine :?: ,,,,,,beats me :neutral: . I was going to take photos of the finished bow this afternoon but got side-tracked gluing knife handles and missed my light window, oh well maybe tomorow.

I've been asked for more detail on the strike plate/arrow shelf material I use, so here it is in pictures.
The raw product.
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backed with double sided tape and marked for cutting.
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Cut out, trimed into shape and coloured with perminent marker.
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The finished product.
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I think the pack of two 100mmx100mm pads cost around $8, enough for about 12 bows. (thats economy).

Cheers, Rob.
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
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Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#47 Post by Flatliner » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:40 am

Here's some pics of Paul's bow "Wildshow" finished.
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I like this bit :mrgreen:
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Well there it is Paul I'll get it in the post on Monday along with the knife handle blocks.

Rob.
Last edited by Flatliner on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
ImageEmail; robnicoll(at)bigpond(dot)com
www.flatlinebows.com.au

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Flatliner
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:12 pm
Location: Gordonvale NTH QLD

Re: Flatline opus 1&2

#48 Post by Flatliner » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:45 pm

It's on it's way Paul. The lady a the post office said it was the most expensive registered post she had ever done in the 9 years she has worked at the post office :shock: , but better safe than sorry hey.

I am proud of and in love with my new bow, it's the best performing and sweetest shooting bow I've made to date :biggrin: and I'm just as happy with Paul's.

So, in conclusion, I hope I have inspired and provided enough information for those of you considering making a bow to have a go, if you are still in doubt about your ability then I suggest you go back through the build-along and break it down in to the small steps it is presented in and decide if you are capable of performing each step individually, if so then you are capable of the whole thing. Just be prepared to put more time and effort in than you expected, don't take short-cuts and remember it's not patience thats required, it's the sure knowledge that it will take longer, be harder and will probably teach you more about yourself than about bow making but will ultimately be very satisfying.

If you are interested in having a FLATLINE BOW custom made by your's truly, here is a link to the info sheet in the bowyers category on this site. http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=11034

I'll add my website when it's up and running.

Cheers, Rob.
The shortest distance between two points is a FLATLINE
ImageEmail; robnicoll(at)bigpond(dot)com
www.flatlinebows.com.au

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