draw knife advice

[abubain]

Hi

I am just about to purchase a draw knife to start making my first bow. I've got some mulberry and am also getting some spotted gum from a friend.

I saw a flexible blade draw knife and was wondering if this would be better than a straight blade draw knife for bow making.

Anybody got any thoughts?

Cheers

[Stickbow Hunter]

Welcome to the site. In all honesty I wouldn't use a draw knife at all especially on the Spotted Gum as I think you would tear and lift the grain. I think a rasp and scraper would be better but others may have other suggestions.

Jeff

[Gringa Bows]

Welcome to Ozbow mate...

[perry]

Personnelly I prefer to use a Machette or a Tomahawk using short light controlled chops to rough a stave, then switch to a farriers rasp. The Farriers Rasp is an indispensible tool and one to buy , you'll use it longer than any other tool when making Selfbows. A good sharp knife makes a great scrapper

Others I know that own draw knives don't use them much, preferring the Machette or Tomahawk

regards Jacko

[MarkG]

I can attest to the draw knife tearing spotted gum. I ripped out a chunk about 1 inch wide from not being careful with it.

[abubain]

Thanks everyone

as I have horses I already have a farriers rasp so I guess I'm one step ahead already.......

Cheers

[abubain]

Oh and I have a question about the scraper. Are we talking a sharp paint scraper???

[GrahameA]

Oh and I have a question about the scraper. Are we talking a sharp paint scraper???

Cabinet Scraper.

See this post also http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=11384

[ppofandt]

http://www.carbatec.com.au/scraping_c260
Or similar.

When used properly they perform somewhere between sandpaper and a fine woodplane.

[Brumbies Country]

Welcome to the site abubain. I have a feeling I've known you from a long time ago . You will get some excellent info from the guys on this site. Hope the horse archery is coming along well.

[KellyG]

I can't speak for your gum trees would know a spotted gum from peppermint gum. I never used a draw knife on anything other than Osage, but mulberry is suppose to be close to Osage and if that is true you want the knife dull. It is very easy to tell the early and late wood as you draw through it. Good luck

[looseplucker]

I second and third the motions. In my experience (I have b*ggered up more bows than I've made shooters and am thusly very qualified to comment) a drawknife has its uses but do a fair bit of experimenting with it before you let it loose on your intended bow stave.

Too shallow an angle relative to the stave and you will get some kindling. I use mine for removing bark and sapwood on osage - as something for levering it out if you will, but once I'm into the growth ring I make sure the angle is getting up toward 90 deg or just less.

Working a board I would tend to use a farrier's rasp initially and then move to a scraper - I actually have a Bowyer's Edge from Dean Torges which is a scraper with handles.

Yeoman likes to use the edge of a chisel. I also have an old fishing knife of my Grandad's that the last 5" broke off from and I put a handle on it - great as a scraper for the finer end of tillering.

[Coron]

Hello all,
before i even considered taking tools to wood i had done many hours of reading on making bows, it seems that no one likes the good old drawknife, everyone says that you need the blade dull for separating growth rings and roughing out a bow but i find the sharper the blade on a drawknife the better

My advise, keep the blade razor sharp all the time, a dull blade will cause more fiber separation of the wood when the angle of the blade is too shallow, while a sharp drawknife will slice through even the densest wood without bringing up fibers.
also if your working on the belly of a bow never use the drawknife from mid limb to the handle... your always working from the handle to mid limb, same goes for the tips to mid limb, the reason being your cutting through growth rings not trying to lift them!!

The problem most people have with drawknifes is they "hack" at the wood with it, in reality you can get shavings from a dense wood like Spotted gum as fine as any cabinet scraper, the trick is to go slow... if you find the blade catching at a point DO NOT HACK THROUGH IT..... use the blade shallow and coming across the limb at a 45 degree angle to come at the offending fiber/bump/imperfection and at the opposite 45 degrees with a sharp blade the imperfection will come off with little effort and no fibers lifting

The advantage i find with drawknifes is the angels you can get with them compared to a spoke shave (shaping handle and fade outs)

If i had to choose one tool to take a stave and make it into a bow it would be my trusty drawknife

Any thoughts?

Thanks guys.
Harry

[yeoman]

I've used draw knives and spokeshaves extensively for bowmaaking in the past.

Where draw knives really shine, in my experience, is with northern hemisphere woods like apple or ash. A nice sharp drawknife goes like a cheesewire through butter on those woods. It is fantastic.

The drawknife on woods like spotted gum can tear chunks. With practice it can be made to take of shavings. But you know what? I've found that other tools are better for Aussie hardwoods, especially for making bows.

I started with a Stanley Surform. Then I used a spokeshave primarily. Then I discovered the joy of a really rough rasp. Then I heard about pattern makers' rasps, which leave very few marks. Recently I discovered Japanese rasps, which have two sides - 'Industrial wood chipper strength' and 'mortal rasp strength'. These beasts don't clog in the same way as normal rasps, and simply chew through Ironbark with undispoted authority.

After rasping, I change to scrapers of unusual sorts. As Looseplucker said, I use other tools as scrapers. I start with a half round bastard cut file for removing the worst of the rasp marks, then use the edge of a chisel for fine scraping and minute tiller adjustments.

I do love drawknives though, and they certainly havee their place, just like any other tool. Also like any other tool, they have their limitations and applications/woods for which they should not be used.

The one drawknife I owned was about 50 years old. I loved it. Then someone pinched it.

D

[Coron]

Hello Yeoman,
Thank you for your reply, i had a look for the Japanese rasps you were talking about, are they the ones with a honeycomb appearance?
if so they do look like they would do the job, it seems you can get them with a normal rasp handle or a two hand set up, i think that will be the next tool for the shed.

Have used a Stanley surform in the past but i find them very flimsy, i like my tools to be solid, cast iron if possible

you have given me much to think about Yeomen, but i still like the sense of freedom that comes with a drawknife, there are no "settings" on the tool just hand movement, angle and pressure.

Sad to hear about your drawknife, its always frustrating when someone nicks something thats dear to you, I often get lots of older tools sent over from the US, next lot i get there will be a nice little prezzie for you ill pm you when i get them.

Are there any other tools that people find work for them really well?

Thanks guys,
Harry

[Stickbow Hunter]

My electric rasp (Makita angle grinder with a sanding pad and course to fine discs) is far better than a draw knife, surform or any normal rasps for shaping up bows IMO. It's easy to use and gets the job done a lot quicker.

Of course normal rasps and a scraper are good once to get the bow shaped out and for the finer work.

Jeff

[yeoman]

Hi Coron,

Yep, the Japanese rasps are the ones that look somewhat like a honeycomb, made from what usually look like hacksaw blades.

Well worth it. Like drawknives, they have no settings or blade angles. It's all done by feel and determination.

The first stanley surform (or maybe copy, but it had a surform blade) had a cast body. It eventually broke after long, long hard use. I got a replacement, made of plastic. It was so flimsy I had to rivet aluminium reinforces to it to stop the 'rails' that support the blade from buckling and rubbing on the wood, wearing it out. Haven't used it in years now.

Jeff, I reckong the setup you have would work really, really well on the extremely tight grained stuff such as you work with. That being fibreglass. It probably works great on wood too, but would be a little noisy I imagine. One thing I realy like about bowyery is that for the majority of the time, it's quiet hand tools over which i can hear music.

The last bowmaking course I did, I held it at the workshop of a bladesmith. He has three variable speed Radius Master grinders. With a 40 or 60 grit belt, and set on the slowest speed, using it over the largest contact wheel, tillering has never gone faster for me. I didn't let the students do this for fear of grinding a massive hinge into the limb at the first pass.

But in about 10 to 15 minutes, I took a longbow from 'long string tillered' to '40lb at 20" draw'. I was a big fan.

Dave

[Stickbow Hunter]

Dave, I use it to shape the whole bow and even while starting to tiller. I have used it on Red Ash and Osage Orange self bows. You do have to be careful though.

Jeff

[yeoman]

Much like with the knife grinder, I suppose.

[Stickbow Hunter]

Much like with the knife grinder, I suppose.

I'm not sure as I am using the flat of a disc where those Radius Master grinders would be a belt and you use the area where the belt runs around a wheel??? I use it to not only save me a lot of time but to help avoid movement of my head back and forth when using a rasp as I have a medical condition and such movement effects my balance.

Jeff

[yeoman]

Well yes of course there's that difference in mechanic, but what I was referring to was the way that both systems use power and grit to transform very solid wood into chaff at a tremendous rate. Which requires one to use great care.

[Stickbow Hunter]

but what I was referring to was the way that both systems use power and grit to transform very solid wood into chaff at a tremendous rate. Which requires one to use great care.

Yes, absolutely mate!!!

Jeff