Elm sapwood/heartwood question

[Brumbies Country]

Around a year ago we took a limb (roughly 9" in diameter) off an elm at home because the limb was encroaching on a shed roof. I subsequently split the limb into 4 staves. I'm now looking at making a Sudbury type selfbow from the first of the staves. the stave is roughly 2" thick sapwood and a bit over an inch heartwood. I'm going to have to reduce it significantly to get to my just above 40lbs draw weight

I'm not aware of alot of use of elm in Australia for selfbows, but somebody might be able to advise me. My inclination is to reduce the sapwood to a growth ring and have a sapwood back and heartwood belly.

On the other hand I have enough sapwood to make it sapwood only and on some of the other staves enough hearwood to make an entirely heartwood bow. Advice appreciated. I learned the hard way with black locust that it would have been better to have used heartwood only.

[Hamish]

All the Euro and US bowyers rate elm highly. You can use either the heartwood or the sapwood or a combo if you have enough wood to make a bow in the stave. If the just under bark growth ring is sound then you can just use it, or do the extra work for a potentially prettier bow.
Hamish.

[Len]

G'day mate, I have made a couple of Elm Elb's and they were sap-wood only and I think a sap-wood only bow would be the better choice. Elm makes a great bow and you may be interested to know that English bowyers in late medieval times were required by law to make two elm bows for every yew bow so as to keep all the youths in training without using up battle quality yew bows.

[Brumbies Country]

Thanks Hamish and Len

Re Hamish's comment one of the editions of the Bowyer's Bible, and I think it was Tim Baker in comparing bow woods, gave elm a really good mention in comparison to other bow woods.

Len, I knew that in England they used elm but re it's relation to the making of yew bows hadn't come across the 2:1 principle before. Interesting! By the way the ash ELB you made that I bought through Wildwood 2-3 years ago is still in great shape.

It looks like I will try the sapwood only on this first one but agree a combined sapwood/heartwood elm bow would look good.

Simon

[rodlonq]

Looking forward to see how you go with it Simon.

Cheers......... Rod

[greybeard]

G'day mate, I have made a couple of Elm Elb's and they were sap-wood only and I think a sap-wood only bow would be the better choice. Elm makes a great bow and you may be interested to know that English bowyers in late medieval times were required by law to make two elm bows for every yew bow so as to keep all the youths in training without using up battle quality yew bows.

Len,

I have not had the opportunity to work with Elm but I believe that the cross section of an elb compared to that of the sudbury bow will produce differing results.

If sufficent staves available experimenting with sap wood only and heart wood only plus varying ratios of sap wood/heart wood could be an interesting project.

Hi Simon,

Have you checked out the following sites?

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/inde ... ic=14211.0

http://www.stickbow.com/stickbow/selfbows/GOM3.html

The following is from the ‘stickbow’ site.

Jeff Collier asks:

I would like to know some measurements, etc. for an Eastern Woodlands bow to shoot and to show to my classes (we do a unit on Native Americans to begin the school year. I have lots of White Ash and Black Locust in the woods out back.

Paul Comstock: Some bow makers want very specific dimensions when "copying" an Indian or aboriginal bow. This approach has some limited research applications for scholars, but I recommend that mainstream bow makers forget about specific dimensions. Among any aboriginal group, the same style of bow will have widely divergent dimensions, based on its intended draw weight, and the size of the person shooting it. If you want to make a 55-pound hunting bow, you could unknowingly copy the dimensions of a bow that was made to pull 30 pounds for a 13-year-old boy. The resulting bow will disappoint you (or at best, mislead you).

Consider the Sudbury bow, perhaps the best known Eastern Indian bow artefact. Everything about the bow suggests it was designed to pull 40-45 pounds. Yet some modern bowyers copy the length and width precisely, and make a bow that pulls 70 pounds. They end up with an inefficient weapon with lots of string follow. I believe the Indian who made it was smart enough to change the measurements if he wanted something heavier. The typical Eastern bow - if placed with one tip on the ground in front of the archer - would be at least as tall as the archer's chin, usually as tall as the archer, and sometimes taller. Most had a rectangular or semi-rectangular cross-section along the length, and bent along the entire length. If you want 55 pounds, shoot for an average width between 1.25 and 1.5 inches. If lighter, go correspondingly narrower. For stylistic nuances (nock shapes, etc.), check the drawings in Bows and Arrows of the Native Americans by Jim Hamm, or the Traditional Bowyers Bible series.

Some reproductions of the Sudbury bow appear to be similar in design to the Meare Heath bow.

Daryl.

[Brumbies Country]

Looking forward to see how you go with it Simon.

Cheers......... Rod

Thanks Rod

When it's all done an looking good and shooting well I'll certainly put a pick up on the site

Simon

[Brumbies Country]

Thanks Daryl

I really appreciate your reference to those sites and the comments. For the last three years I thought a Sudbury design was the way to go. In the Bent Stick Paul Comstock saw it as an overbuilt bow not too far removed from the Meare Heath and a very efficient design. At that time I made, in reflection a very crude imitation from a hickory board. It was 68" looked very basic, was a tad over 40lbs, but it denied it's looks and for a couple of years shot OK.

My next attempt at a Sudbury (Wampanoag) I looked at a picture of the original from the Peabody museum and attempted a replica of it with a piece of Black Locust. It's the best looking bow I've made to date but I made two mistakes. The first was I left sapwood on the back, the second was I thought I'd got rapid seasoning pretty right but I may have gone a bit early. The sapwood on the back, and it wasn't particularly thick, contrasted beautifully with the heartwood, but I got a cpouple of frets . In the high 40lbs it was a little heavy for me but if I shot well it shot well. It got a little out of tiller and now sits in the bow room.

Until your post I hadn't realised that the Sudbury bent through the handle. That's something I'll work towards now.

Thanks again.

Simon