Questions for first Woodies

[Buranurra]

Hi all,

I sent off an email to Surewood shafts with some questions and I want to get some second advice. I was gunna get 12 and use field point on 6 and broadheads on the other six. I am not sure what grain 2 blades to go for. I am pretty sure the Whip and El Lobo are cut to centre or very very close to it???

See questions and answers below.

Dear Sir
I would like to purchase some of your premium shafts.

I am pretty new and have only used carbons in the past, I am hoping you can recommend the best woodies for me? My true draw is 27.5 and the bows I am using are as follows; Toelke Whip 62 "57# @28 and Jack B Harrison El Lobo 62 "58# @28, I am wondering/hoping that these will require the same shafts. Being in Western Australia makes buying a testing pack prohibitively expensive.

I also use a 43# Hunters Niche Predator 60" 42#@28

I am hoping you can help with advice for this first order, What tapering device do you recommend? I have purchased a Bitzenberger Right Helical Jig & Clamp and will be wanting to purchase feathers, but don't know if you can supply the feathers in the same order, which would help with shipping costs?

Jason .... We try not to get involved with determining spine for customers,
because there are usually to many variables that we just can't
determine accurately without being right there with you. However,
because of your situation, we will do our best to help you out.
First of all we are going to have to assume a few things about
your bows that was not mentioned in your email. Are they both
cut to center(or more) Are you using fast flight string? What weight
of field point or broadhead are you using? Anyway, we made some
assumptions and we came up with 70-75# for the first two bows.
Those shafts of course will not work for the third bow you mentioned.
As far as feathers go, we have a good friend we can get them from
and include in our shipment if you decide to purchase from Surewood.
We would need to know what length(die cut) you want and of course
whether they are right or left hand. Also what color and how many.
Another thought would be that you could go to our web site.
www.surewoodshafts.com and at the top of the page there is an icon
that says "mass weight". Scroll to the bottom and there is a link that
takes you to Stu Miller's Spine Chart. From that you could put in all of
the information accurately and determine the spine you need and then
maybe compare it to what we come up with. Hope this helps.

[longbow steve]

Hi Jason, may I ask if you have considered the Australian arrow manufacturers or Trad suppliers that are on Ozbow? I have had great service from John Macdonald, Mark at Trad bits, Wallace woods and Tony Lange from Blue Moon Custom Arrows.
I have always done alright by going for the correct spine for my bows draw weight although they are not cut past centre so I would recomend the same for you unless you are intending to carry allot of weight up front. Cheers Steve

[woodie]

Hi I shoot a 58#@28" longbow and I make my shafts to 75# shine. Try and get field points and broad heads as close to the same wieght as possable. I like black stump ,if you can still get them, I heard they are hard to find or tusker's are good too.
That is what I do it might not be right but it works for me.
woodie

[Buranurra]

THanks fellas,

The only reason I contacted Surewoods was that plenty of reviews put them at number one for quality. Having said that I will look at the recommendations Longbow Steve has mentioned.

Cheers

Jase

[Stickbow Hunter]

You have to match wood arras to you and your bow as with any arrow material. To do this you will have to try different spines to see what will suit your set up. One thing I will suggest is that you decide on what length arrow you want and stick with it. I can never understand cutting the arra shafts off until they shoot right; just get the spine arrow that works with the length arra you want.

For your set up I would also suggest starting with 70 - 75 pound spine shafts and would also suggest you try a 5# spine range either side. When making your wood arras BE SURE to pay attention to gluing your nocks on in relation to the grain in the wood - VERY IMPORTANT!!! If you don't you will not get consistent arra flight between arras with the same spine.

Jeff

[Buranurra]

You have to match wood arras to you and your bow as with any arrow material. To do this you will have to try different spines to see what will suit your set up. One thing I will suggest is that you decide on what length arrow you want and stick with it. I can never understand cutting the arra shafts off until they shoot right; just get the spine arrow that works with the length arra you want.

For your set up I would also suggest starting with 70 - 75 pound spine shafts and would also suggest you try a 5# spine range either side. When making your wood arras BE SURE to pay attention to gluing your nocks on in relation to the grain in the wood - VERY IMPORTANT!!! If you don't you will not get consistent arra flight between arras with the same spine.

Jeff

THanks Jeff,

Was thinking of sticking with 28.5 as I like this in my carbon, was think 150gr points and broadheads, what do you think? Probably 3 x 5 inch shield cut feathers????

Cheers

Jase

[Stickbow Hunter]

Was thinking of sticking with 28.5 as I like this in my carbon, was think 150gr points and broadheads, what do you think? Probably 3 x 5 inch shield cut feathers????

Sounds good to me. I shoot a similar weight to you at my 26.5" draw and shoot around the 75 # spine arras with 190 grain Ribteks. My arra weights usually range around 725 - 750 grains. I also use 3 x high profile 5" shield cut feathers.

Jeff

[Buranurra]

what are your thoughts on brass versus steel field points?

[Stickbow Hunter]

I have really only used the steel ones as they have always been easy to get and available in heavier weights. I don't know if the brass ones are available in the various weights. The steel ones get knocked around bad enough and I imagine the brass ones would be softer.

Jeff

[Buranurra]

Thanks Jeff,

I thought as much but saw the brass ones on Tradbits with some decent weights so I was curious. They do look cool though.

Cheers

Jase

[Fraser]

what are your thoughts on brass versus steel field points?

Jase, I've used both steel and brass, and yes the brass is softer, but the bullet point profile seems to be more resilient, so the brass points don't seem to ware too much faster than the steel. They do look realy cool on a dark arrow shaft.

Fraser

[Buranurra]

what are your thoughts on brass versus steel field points?

Jase, I've used both steel and brass, and yes the brass is softer, but the bullet point profile seems to be more resilient, so the brass points don't seem to ware too much faster than the steel. They do look realy cool on a dark arrow shaft.

Fraser

Thanks Fraser!

[Buranurra]

When I order the shafts I will probably get them cut to size. If I want them cut to size (I don't have a jig) and I want a 28.5 + Point shaft - do I all allow for the nock - ie cut to say 28.3 or how much should I allow for?

Also what nocks do you recommend?

I also have in mind to do some feather splicing so will probably order a feather cutter, I was thinking 5" Shield??

Cheers

Jase

PS: I should probably have put this thread in Traditional Crafts? Oops!

[Fraser]

Jase, you can cut the shafts your self with a fine toothed saw, I cut my shafts 2" proud so that if I get a breakage be hind the point I can clean the shaft up, retaper and glue another piont on. I've found that the loss of 15gr and 3/4" of shaft makes negligable difference to performance.

Shield or paraolic cut feathers have the same performance, it's basically a personal choice. The size will come down to timber type, tunning to the bow, and form, so start with 5", but also get some 4" as you may be able to get away with the smaller size.

Nocks are also a personal choice to some degree, what works for one guy may not work for the next, buy a couple different packets from reputable companies and see what works best for you.

Cheers,

Fraser.

[Stickbow Hunter]

Jase, I would order the shafts uncut. Once you have them do the nock taper and place the nock on the shaft with a firm push (no glue) and then measure the length you want from the deepest part of the nock throat and cut making sure you allow enough for the point taper. It is better to cut a little longer and recut if need be. Once you have done the one you can cut all the others to match.

To cut the shafts you can take a bundle of a dozen or so and wrap some masking tape tightly around them near where you are going to cut them and then use a fine took saw as suggested above to cut them all in one go. You can do them individually as well of course.

For nocks don't use clip on ones IMO.

Jeff

[Buranurra]

Thanks again Fraser and Jeff,

I am starting to get my shopping list and plan together.

I will probably have some more questions so I hope this thread doesn't become exasperating for members who have been around for a while?

Cheers

Jase

[Axefanatic]

Cant add anything to the conversation except to say that folks around here are usually pretty happy to answer multiple questions.

Ask all you want, take all the info on board, and run with what looks best for you!

[Fraser]

Fire away Jase, I don't know all there is to know about this subject, but I'm happy to help where I can.

Fraser

[Stickbow Hunter]

I will probably have some more questions so I hope this thread doesn't become exasperating for members who have been around for a while?

No problems at all mate as that is one of the main reasons this forum exists. As for me, an added bonus is I'm just so glad someone else wants to make their first set of wood arras!!!

[Buranurra]

Thats great Jeff, much appreciated!

Just gotta work out something for cresting now.

Cheers

Jase

[Buranurra]

Regarding glues for point and nocks, what is recommended... Ferr-L-Tite or other???

Cheers

Jase

[Stickbow Hunter]

I use Fletchtite or similar for my nocks, Araldite for my points and Loctite super glue for my fletches.

Jeff

[Fraser]

Ditto for what Jeff said, Ferr-L-tite is good or when your mucking around with different points, but long term you'll loose alot of points, simailar story or fletch tape, goes on fast and feathers strip off easy, good for experimenting with different size feathers. But thier are lots of horror stories out there about fletch tape, I don't trust it to hunt with. I've used super glue on nocks with mixed results, if your going to try it don't be stingie, thats when I've had nocks fly of.

Fraser.

[Buranurra]

Thanks Fellas,

Am defo gunna get some loc-tite super glue for the feathers, I haven't looked into Fletchtite as yet, for the nocks. I was mostly concerned with changing broadheads. Most of the hunting areas around me are very rocky so I would think that I will be doing plenty of damage to the broadies, this is why I thought that hot melt glue might be a good option. But yeah, I don't want to lose a heap of them.

I don't mind getting 3 different products to do the job right.

Cheers

Jase

[Stickbow Hunter]

If you apply heat to your points they are removable when using Araldite no problems.

Jeff

[Buranurra]

If you apply heat to your points they are removable when using Araldite no problems.

Jeff

I was completely unaware of this... unless you are talking about setting them on fire? This being the case araldite might just be the ticket.

[Fraser]

If you apply heat to your points they are removable when using Araldite no problems.

Jeff

I was completely unaware of this... unless you are talking about setting them on fire? This being the case araldite might just be the ticket.

I didn't know about that one either.

Fraser

[Stickbow Hunter]

I was completely unaware of this... unless you are talking about setting them on fire?

I use 24 hr Araldite and to change field points or broadheads I heat the points over our gas stove. You have to watch you don't scorch the arra shaft from stray flame though. They have to get pretty hot and I keep checking them by holding the point with a pair of pliers and giving the shaft a twist. You want them to release with the less heat as possible. You will most likely have to scrape a bit of loose glue off before glueing another head on.

Jeff

[AndyF]

Hey there,

Thought I might as well chuck my tuppence-worth in and help/complicate things further. I've made a lot of arrows for various people and got into some very silly splicing and cresting over the years. There are some pics of arrows I've made under the title 'Some arrows I've bodged together' on about page three of the Trad Crafts section I think.

Anyhow, here's what I found with wood arrows and longbows. This assumes your bow isn't centre shot (most are cut about 1/8th off centre these days.)

1. If your bow has some reflex/deflex then generally you can shoot arrows spined about 10-15 over your bows draw weight. So around 70lb spine should be OK. That said, if you want to cut your arrows cut longer than 28" and use heavier points/broadheads, this will soften the spine of the arrow. If you're shooting a 'flatbow' without reflex/deflex, you can easily come down to 5-10 over the draw weight of your bow at 28" and you should be fine.

2. As someone (sorry can't remember who) points out, don't get your shafts pre-cut. Do this yourself. It's easy and gives you options.

3. I would buy more than 12 shafts. If you're shooting target and break one (it happens quite a bit with woods) then you'll be left with 5 target arrows, which are almost useless. And six hunting arrows won't last you long either.

4. Yes, match the weight of your points between your broadheads and target points if you can. Steel or Brass Target points aren't much different other than your preferred look. The best points around are Top Hat. John MacDonald 02 9875 3032 (Longbow Steve mentions him) can supply various types and weights of these. Their Field points go up to 145 grain, most others (bullets etc) are 100 or 125 grain.

5. If you want the same fletches on both target and hunting arrows, go for about 4-5 inches. Five inch will stabilise the arrow quicker at shorter distances (hunting), but that same length of fletch will create a lot of drag if you're shooting target at 50-60 metres.

6. Generally, the best I've found are either T-Nocks or Arizona Z nocks if you want plastic. A few people like the new alloy nocks from Top Hat because they look good. Make sure you place them so the grain of the shaft is at 90 degrees to the vertical bow/string. This is the way your arrow shafts will have been spine weighed. If you don't pay attention to this, your arrow spine could be quite different and erratic across a set.

7. Glues. Yep, Araldite is great on points (and yes, if you heat the points gently they'll come off should you want to change them). On woods I find Fletchtite is fine for both fletches and nocks. Fletching tape is OK too (and fast). Haven't tried Super Glue but I imagine it works fine and is probably better for fletching allow shafts etc which are very smooth and non-porous.

8. Learn how to straighten wooden shafts and keep them straight. It's really easy and you don't need anything fancier than an old screwdriver to do it. It's amazing how many people I see at trad shoots with bent arrows. And they wonder why they miss.

I can give you plenty of tips on splicing feathers too, but I need pictures to help explain that - which is why I'm re-writing my 'How To' guide. Should be done by early next year.

Hope some of that helps.

Andy

[Buranurra]

Hi Andy,

Thanks very much for this detailed reply - much appreciated!

So this is what I have purchased thus far! I was going to purchase most from Tradbits but they didn't have a few of the items that I needed (will use Oz suppliers next time for sure)

18 Surewood Douglas Fir 11/32 @75# + 3 Seconds to practice on. (full length)
5 inch RW Shield Cut feather chopper
96 full length RW feathers in 3 colours
Tru-Centre V2 taper tool (this is the brand new version apparently better than the previous)
6 x 160gr Grizzly Single RW Bevel Broadheads
12 x 160gr Steel Field points (I am going to get some brass ones from Tradbits and look at the options Andy just suggested)
3 x 175gr Hammer Small game blunts (unfortunately no 160gr available)
Nocks x 48 in various brands to test as they were cheap.

Glues yet to purchase

24hr Araldite
Blue Loctite
Tarzans Grip (to try as recommended by Bill)

Ho ho ho - Merry Christmas to me!!!