Thoughts on a Fred Eichler Buffalo

[Fanto]

I put quite a few dozen arrows through this bow the other day. here's what i fouind

1) the owner of the bow told me to use a stringer so i didnt pop a limb out (an ilf quirk?) started thinking this maybe isnt a bush bow
2) holy crap this thing smokes an arrow!
3) this is the loudest bow i ever shot, even with limb pads under the string, fast flite and rubber string silencer
4) it weights about the same as my 4 trad bows combined
5) I was getting fantastic results with the bow straight up. i added a big rubber doinker stabilizer to the front of the bow (6' screw in) and it got even better.
6) did i mention that its fast?

its a very smooth drawing, smokin fast bow makesb that more noise than AC/DC and weights a ton. the grip fitted me great, a very stable bow. take one bush? no. buy one? no. shoot someone else's at the target range? you betcha. if i was into 3D i think i would buy one of these bows.

cheers

[Ronster]

Yeh Fanto, the good thing about weight is, how stable they usually are. My Win & Win ILF bow is the same, much faster and smoother than any trad I have yet tried. I cant handle the guy, Fred Eichler but his Buffalo has a really good rap. You can see him perform in one of the Masters of the barebow DVD's. He is a real Fruitcake.

Ronster

[slinkymalinky]

I had a Gamemaster II for quite a while. Equally heavy (nothing much you can do about that but very stable); also very quick (my 50# bow was pushing arrows around 430gn at 192fps); and equally noisy when I got it although I think mine was Black Sabbath rather than AC/DC...

BUT

... the noise can be overcome. It took me lots of experimenting as anyone who read my various posts on various forums will tell you. I tried different stablizers, string silencers, limb pads, tuning, arrows, etc etc but in the end all it took was a particular string. I started (on a tip from a forum member) using 8 strand D10 strings from SBD Bowstrings, with recurve wraps and puff silencers. Along with limb dampners and a shock absorbing stablizer (that by themselves had done nothing noticeable to quieten the beast) the result was unbelievable.

I shoot at North Albert under the tin roof on Wednesday nights. It went from people looking at me every shot because it sounded like I was smashing a guitar with every arrow, to getting constant comments about how quiet the bow was. Death metal rock & roll to a dull 'thwap' with just a bit of string.

By the way, I sold it... in the end I wanted an ilf hunting bow (should have bought the Buffalo instead of the Gamemaster).

[Fanto]

Yeah seems like you had the same experience as me. The buffalo isn't a bush bashing bow in my book. Blinds and tree stands maybe. Too fragile and complicated. I only trust solid, one piece bows with action wood risers and phenolic or horn tips. I've had fancy laminated hardwood bows snap through the grip, non phenolic tips split and takedown limb bolt ferrules pull out of a riser.


Again, one piece only for me when it counts

[wishsong]

Fanto ...

its funny how milage varies ... I have been hunting and shooting for 35 years and never had a bow break on me ... snapped a knife or two , and seen a mates recurve blow up in front of me [ that wasn't fun ] ...

I've had fancy laminated hardwood bows snap through the grip, non phenolic tips split and takedown limb bolt ferrules pull out of a riser.

But what are you doing that you are de threading limb nut screws and breaking bows ? Where do you hunt ? Man you must be hard on your gear !!! ... and take it from me I know hard on gear ... coz I am a gear hobbit !
And there are many many Bear , Wing recurves from the 60's that are laminated risers still hunting hard every year ... ditto take downs ....

but back to the topic

Fred Eichler is a very annoying man ... and the whooping and hollering is most uneeded IMHO on his infomercia... err I mean Hunting shows .


The Buffalo is not an ILF bow ... it uses Hoyt Proprietary limb attachments , not ILF ... but in essence i think we are talking about metal handled recurves ...

1) the owner of the bow told me to use a stringer so i didnt pop a limb out (an ilf quirk?) started thinking this maybe isnt a bush bow
*There are many many people hunting all over the world with similiar bows , using a stringer with recurves is pretty common regardless of limb attachment make or other ... Having said that , I have strung an unstrung my Titan thousands of times using push /pull and never had a limb pop out ... I have dragged mine backpacking after Sambar and through sandy dusty western NSW and the sth Island New Zealand which had rivers , snow and thick tangles spiky scrub the likes of which I have never seen ... and the bow performed like every other recurve ..... It is no stronger nor weaker nor less reliable than any other 3 pce takedown . If it was , then surely across the world wide hunting archery media , and in particular the "tradd" community which is quite insular ... we'd be hearing about failures and lack of bush "toughness" ... but we don't


2) holy crap this thing smokes an arrow!
I am sure its quick but then again its about the limbs that are on it ....

3) this is the loudest bow i ever shot, even with limb pads under the string, fast flite and rubber string silencer
*I'd suggest that with tuning it will be no louder than many other hunting recurves . Was it tuned ? Was the tiller correct for your draw ... way way too many people hunting with similiar set ups , whether ILF or not to be shooting rigs that are loud . My similiar rigs are as quieter than my wooden recurves with the same or less silencers [ due to its fine tuning capabilities ... and I am shooting 8.6 gns per pound carbons , Blazer vanes off a flipper rest .....

4) it weights about the same as my 4 trad bows combined
Mine Titan weigh the same, maybe a tad more , as my 3pce woody recurves , and is even lighter than some [ I have a phenolic 3pce that is uber heavy and my old Widow was heavier I think ...


5) I was getting fantastic results with the bow straight up. i added a big rubber doinker stabilizer to the front of the bow (6' screw in) and it got even better.
Cool, I dislike stabs generally but some people love them ... its great to have the choice


6) did i mention that its fast?
Be interesting to put it through a chrono against your other bows with similiar weights and Gns per pound ... Mine are not that much quicker until I drop arrow weight , then I really see a difference . But I do have one rig that is shooting at 185-190 which is quick with 27 1/2 draw IMHO and hunting weight arrows

[Fanto]

wishsong,

the recurve that had a limb failure was a Howatt Mamba. the limb tip split because i used Fastflite on a non-FF bow. (archery shop made a mistake there)

My 72@28 stotler gamegetter elite snapped through the grip. I fixed it, and put it through some extreme testing to make sure. the limb bolt ferrule pulled out (my repair held) so i had to fix that as well.

thanks for the correction on the limb attachment, i wasnt really sure.

Loudness: again, it is the loudest bow i ever shot full stop. It had recurve limb pads and string silencers and it was still like a .22 gunshot still. Maybe with some tiller improvements it would be quieter. I doubt it. big wool ball silencers would quiet it, but it wasnt just sting noise, the bow itself is loud. the limb attachment seems to contribute to the loudness, (because the limbs float) and no it wasnt tillered for me. neither are any of my other bows which i purchased secondhand. I went home and shot my stotler longbow. with only cat whiskers its almost completely silent and the comparison is chalk and cheese.


it has an aluminium riser so its inherently stable and heavy. if you use a lighter riser it would be lighter, but also no longer a fred eichler buffalo

i dont like stabilisers either, just put one on to damp the noise and vibrations. it improoved my groups a bit too

we didnt chrono this bow. I was shooting 5575s with 130 up front, so maybe 450gr from a 50lb bow (9gpp) we chronoed the same arrows through a 50lb predator recurve at 193fps. this buffalo wouldnt be far off. I shot the same arrows through a longbow. the 20 yard gap was a foot less with the buffalo (12in at 20yds compared to 24" at 20 yards - longbow)

[wishsong]

Yeah , my longbows are whisper quiet compared to any of my 'curves ...

Bad news on the Mamba and Stotler [ i always wanted a Stotler ........

there are bows out there for everyone , and my personal preference will always be for 1 pce longbows [ straight please ......

but I love my Titan the more I shoot it ... its just a great shooter ! lighter than my Widow PMA and uber uber sexy

but it is quieter , only just, with feathers off the shelf ...... but as a drag through the mud Sambar Rig that weather and rain won't bother ... Did I say I love my Titan and vaned carbons !!!

[wishsong]

ps ... that was a good job fixing the Stotler ... I would love to be that handy !!!

[longbowinfected]

Wishsong, That Widow take down longbow I got from you is the quietest bow I have ever shot and seriously quick. Standing next to 4 or 5 top gun recurvers [using Widows] at the big shoot recently at HVTA at the practice butts was interesting. Most of them had a go with mine and I think it challenge core beliefs about the gap between curves and longbows. The more I shoot this bow the closer I get to accepting Jeff c's belief they are semi recurves. It is the smoothest drawing and most stable bow I have ever shot. Bad luck for the bow it doesn't have a classier driver.

Kevin

[wishsong]

Kev ... and I anxiously await you to sell it back to me

I have a 50# SKY 60" hybrid Rebel in stock at the moment ... 60" and more forward handled than the Widow ... and it is absolutely whisper quiet and very very quick ... it has the same point on as many of the lads curves and even further out than others ......
In fact its pretty much just as quiet as my Hills

[longbowinfected]

Wishsong,

you would be standing in an ever increasing line. Gets more tyre kickers each shoot I go to. Those trapezoid limbs are incredible. The Widow bow strings are very good too.

Kevin

[wishsong]

Then Kev, wait til you try my Whippensticks

Yeah ... no better !

[Fanto]

on the semi-recurves or reflex deflex flatbows, i have a Cari-bow Slynx on order. pete ward tested its shorter (wolverine) and longer (peregreine) cousins and found that with a D97 string, he got 193fps at 9gppp (450gr arrow, 50lb bow). Im not that fussed about a few fps here and there, but that is seriously fast. it is one of the fastest trad bows in production. more than 20fps quicker than my Mamba recurve was (RIP) and exactly as quick as a predator recurve which is the fastest recurve i ever shot. its also apparently quiet, smooth and a joy to shoot. and its definitely pretty (black and white ebony, dont tell the minister of finance..) cant wait!

[Fanto]

Bad news on the Mamba and Stotler [ i always wanted a Stotler ........

its a sensational bow. mine is the elite so it has bamboo and carbon lams. the handle has phenolic in both planes (front back and left right) but unfortunately the timber cracked (lifted a big split on the back of the handle.) it was maple or similar. the bow was so strong still that i could not finish it off and snap it clean in half, so i opened the crack , filled with CA glue . then i inserted 2 1" heavy gauge stainless steel screws, then wrapped the grip with fibreglass tape, finished with 24hr epoxy, then added a leather grip wrap, and she is good as new.

if you can get one, go for it. if you order one, get the riser made from a very strong timber.